Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 3:26 pm on 18 February 2003.

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Photo of Baroness Noakes Baroness Noakes Conservative 3:26, 18 February 2003

I thank all Members who took part in this short debate, including those who supported the amendments. In particular, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, for her contribution on evidence-based approaches. The Bill is not evidence-based; it is assertion-based. We need more evidence. Amendments Nos. 67 and 68 concern evidence after the enactment of the Bill regarding its impact on patients and carers.

The right reverend Prelate spoke about patients being treated as commodities in this Bill. I say to the Minister that that is what most people believe. He and his colleagues are in denial about that and the impact that the Bill will have on people. They see it much more in terms of systems and processes, not of people, who are at the heart of the Bill.

The Minister gave an assurance that monitoring would take place under various mechanisms that already exist. But we are being asked again to accept that something is implicit in the system, rather than have an explicit commitment from the Government. We need to be clear about the impact on patients—not on processes; not on statistics; and not on the many aspects that could be covered by the inspection bodies. That is why Amendment No. 67 was drafted to ensure that the Secretary of State specifies to the inspection bodies that they should monitor the impact of the legislation on patients and carers. It is also why Amendment No. 68 would provide that the Secretary of State shall report to Parliament on the outcomes for patients.

We are always asked to accept things on trust. We are told that provision will happen; that there are existing mechanisms, and so on. I do not think that we should. The impact of the Bill on patients is just too important. I wish to test the view of the Committee.