Courts Bill [HL]

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 4:00 pm on 10 February 2003.

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Photo of Lord Graham of Edmonton Lord Graham of Edmonton Labour 4:00, 10 February 2003

I am untutored, compared with other speakers, on the practice. I mentioned previously that my wife was a magistrate at Haringey and at Highgate. During those 30 years, I had the opportunity to meet many of the clerks and their staff. The situation is not dissimilar in many other walks of life. Earlier, I referred to the fact that my great experience outside this House was in the co-operative movement. A man may take a senior position and everyone knows that he will not stay there much longer because he has quality. Everyone knows that, whether or not they want to keep him, other people will be knocking at the door. I am not talking about poaching or offers, but, especially if people are young—in their 30s, in my experience—you know that they will move on up higher, and you say, "That's great".

Recognising that fact, my noble friend and her colleagues have the difficult and delicate job of trying to satisfy the need for continuity in an area. Many noble Lords, like me, were Members of Parliament. We knew well our patch and the value of the people with whom we worked—and they knew that we knew that. That is a great thing, but when it comes to understanding the community served by the court, although there may be distress when someone who is eminently loved and respected moves on, one knows how quickly, given the right choice of appointment, someone else can immediately begin to make an impression.

I have no advice for my noble friend or her colleagues, who must deal with the matter, except to say that the trick is to satisfy everyone that the way that the law has been rolled out is, as far as possible, equitable and to the community's satisfaction. I take kindly what was said from the Opposition Front Bench about the power of the advocacy that they have received from outside. I hope that my noble friend will be able to respond to it. Consultations take place with various bodies and I cannot believe that my noble friend and her colleagues would, in the face of strong advice all round, persist in doing something that would patently be resented by those on whose behalf it was promulgated.