Export Control Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 3:45 pm on 20 May 2002.

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Photo of Lord Sainsbury of Turville Lord Sainsbury of Turville Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Science and Innovation), Department of Trade and Industry, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department of Trade and Industry) (Science and Innovation) 3:45, 20 May 2002

My Lords, I do not have that figure to hand, but I shall be happy to write to the noble Lord and let him have it. In the discussion of the Bill, we have passed the point of debating whether we should have any controls on our exports. We are now considering the minutiae of that. However, if there are figures I can let the noble Lord have relating to the value of our exports, I shall be happy to provide them.

The new subsection tabled to replace Clause 4(4) would require the Government to issue licences under any directly applicable Community provision in such a way as to meet the requirements in Clause 4(1). I am afraid that such a measure would simply be incompatible with our obligations under the European dual-use regulation. It is true that this regulation provides that licensing of the controls contained within it is the responsibility of member states, but the regulation also makes clear that member states must make those licensing decisions on the basis of certain considerations, including the EU code of conduct on arms exports. Imposing a duty on the Secretary of State to grant certain licences in the interest of academic freedom would constitute a misuse of the licensing powers conferred by the regulations by using the powers for a collateral national purpose.

If I may conclude, it is for the noble Baroness to refine Clause 4 if she wishes. We will not oppose that. But these amendments do not make Clause 4 and a deletion of part of what was Clause 2 of the Bill acceptable. This House has done much to improve the Bill since it began its scrutiny of it in January. It was, before Report, a better Bill than when it left the other place. But in accepting Clause 4 and deleting part of Clause 2, this House has severely damaged the Bill. Therefore, the Government will have to look to the other place to put that right. As I said, we are prepared to continue the debate on Clause 9 and test any further scenarios against it, but we believe that there is no way that the defect of Clause 4 can sensibly be put right.