Hunting with Dogs: Ban

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 2:20 pm on 19 March 2002.

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Photo of Viscount Allenby of Megiddo Viscount Allenby of Megiddo Crossbench 2:20, 19 March 2002

My Lords, as a young cadet at Sandhurst, I was summoned by the then commandant, General Hugh Stockwell, and told that I was to be excused all academy parades and should go fox hunting instead—an invitation that I did not refuse.

We again find ourselves debating hunting with dogs. There can be few arguments for or against that have not been fully explored here in Westminster, in Scotland and throughout the rural and urban communities. Sadly, the debate is about the loss of freedom of choice, as well as conscience and many moral issues. Tied in with all that are one's own principles, scruples and sense of right and wrong. I believe that it is wrong to be debating the subject without a Bill before us, while other important legislation is being kept waiting and important matters of state remain unresolved.

Since the outright ban on hunting was rejected by a substantial vote in your Lordships' House, much has happened to affect the countryside, not least foot and mouth and the need to slaughter tens of thousands of animals, leading to loss of livelihood and devastation of parts of our countryside. We have also heard of the progress made by the Middle Way Group, which has affected the opinion of a number of your Lordships.

It is more than 18 months since the publication of the Burns report. It is worth reminding ourselves that at no point does that report conclude that hunting is cruel. Insensibility and death will normally follow within a matter of seconds once the quarry is caught. That is true of the foxes and deer that I have seen hunted and killed. In the subsequent debate, the noble Lord, Lord Burns, confirmed that. The veterinary opinion on hunting with hounds recently came to the same conclusion. We have heard a great deal about cruelty in the debate today.

That same opinion examined in great detail the alternatives for controlling the fox population—shooting, snaring, leg-hold trapping, killing traps, gassing and poisoning. All were found to be open to error, cruelty or abuse.

The fox population of this country needs to be effectively controlled. Like the badger, the fox is without natural predators other than man. The badger, which has been a protected species since 1973, has a steeply rising population and is increasingly suffering from tuberculosis, which is also spreading to man and throughout the farming industry.

As the noble Lord, Lord Burns, stated in paragraph 3.63 of his report:

"Hunting as an economic and social activity is intrinsically intertwined within the horse and countryside economy".

A national equestrian survey carried out in 1999 estimated the horse population to be in the region of 900,000. I declare an interest as a vice-chairman of the International League for the Protection of Horses, and a past chairman. If hunting were to be abolished, which I sincerely hope that it will not, large numbers of horses would come on to the open market and might well end up in the food chain. That is a staggering thought that no right minded government should ever consider as acceptable to the welfare of our countryside and all those who live in it.

I remain convinced that a total ban on hunting with hounds or dogs is unworkable and unacceptable. However, having in the past supported the status quo, I now believe that we should move to the middle way option as a compromise. We are showing good will, patience and a sense of responsibility in our debate today. I very much hope, for the sake of the countryside, that the Government will match that good will by coming up with a workable alternative and not invoking the Parliament Act, which would cause a lot of trouble in the future.

Although in the past the Masters of Foxhounds Association has effectively controlled the sport and we now have ISAH, which is doing valuable work, the time is surely right to institute a workable and unbureaucratic system of licensing. We must avoid prolonged periods of uncertainty in the countryside and we must at all costs avoid the mistakes and uncertainties that have been created by the recent Scottish legislation. Anyone who has followed that will know what a shambles it is. However, we need to identify what actions will constitute illegal hunting and where responsibility will lie for the different forms of hunting that we undertake in the country at the moment.

Finally, I urge the Government to drop further legislation for an outright ban on hunting with dogs, on the grounds that the countryside has suffered enough deprivation in recent months. I hope that it will soon get back on to its feet. We need to support our countryside, not to deprive it of one of its vital assets—control of foxes. I, too, support the middle way.