asked Her Majesty's Government:

What action they are taking to improve security at the Channel Tunnel and to preserve safety on trains passing through it.

My Lords, Eurotunnel has invested heavily in effective anti-intrusion measures at the French terminal of the Channel Tunnel. SNCF is currently installing anti-intrusion measures at its adjoining Fréthun freight yard. The Government are pressing the French Government at the highest levels to provide adequate policing resources at Fréthun to support these measures and tackle the disruption to Channel Tunnel services caused by would-be illegal immigrants.

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his reply. Has he seen reports that asylum seekers have been jumping on to trains and lorries leaving France? Are the Government working very closely with the French authorities—I was glad to hear what he has had to say so far on the matter—in order to deter such illegal immigrants, although the French may be glad to see the back of them?

My Lords, I am aware of the report to which the noble Lord refers; in particular, with regard to would-be illegal immigrants seeking to jump on to trains. It is an issue that we take incredibly seriously. I entirely agree with the premise of the noble Lord's question. The matter must be dealt with in co-operation with the French. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has written twice to M. Jospin and has stressed the urgent need to ensure that adequate measures are taken relating to both physical security and police presence in order to enable SNCF to resume full services through Calais Fréthun freight yard properly protected from potential illegal immigrants.

My Lords, can the Minister give any reason to the House why these would-be illegal immigrants are so keen to come to the United Kingdom, rather than staying in France or in the rest of the European Union?

My Lords, the noble Lord should listen to the Question.

My Lords, while noting that there has been a decline in the number of people seeking asylum in the United Kingdom, can the Minister say what progress is being made in discussions with the rest of our partners in the European Union so that applications for asylum can be processed in the first safe country at which applicants arrive?

My Lords, discussions are going on at the moment with our partners to try and reform the Dublin convention to try and make that very process occur.

My Lords, can the noble and learned Lord reassure us that a complete freight service has been resumed? The absence of one has caused very large economic losses. Does he also agree that this is not just a matter of security but of assessing who is and who is not an asylum seeker or refugee? That would best be done in France.

My Lords, this is about safety on trains first; safety both for the people on the trains and the people who are illegally trying to get on them. It is a very important safety issue. There is also the separate issue of where is the best place to assess the asylum claims. Of course we would say that it is not by coming into Britain illegally.

As to the question about whether full services have been resumed, I think that the answer is that they have not yet been fully resumed. Perhaps I may write to the noble Lord and confirm that.

My Lords, I previously asked the noble and learned Lord whether halting the trains at Fréthun is the right policy and whether they should run through Fréthun from further back in France, which I know involves some expenditure. But the Government are facing that expenditure in making up to Eurotunnel the minimum user charge. So they are paying in either case. The cost can be met. The Eurotunnel passenger trains run from Paris and Brussels and do not have to stop at the border.

My Lords, we believe that the key to the resolution of the problem is for SNCF and for the French authorities to put in place adequate physical security and policing resources at Fréthun, so that there can be a restoration of the full rail freight service without disruption. That is the solution that we are pressing for.

My Lords, in supporting the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, is not the main problem the fact that the Red Cross centre is within walking distance of the Fréthun terminal? When the would-be immigrants get to the fences some get over and get on the trains. Others, who are turned back by the police and are escorted back to the Red Cross centre, try again another night. Is not the real answer to persuade the French Government to close that centre?

My Lords, as I have indicated, discussions are going on with the French. We are proposing solutions that in effect provide adequate security so that the full freight service from Fréthun can be resumed.

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord may not quite have understood my question, which was different from the Question posed by my noble friend Lord Campbell of Croy. My question was: what is it that makes illegal immigrants want to come to this country, rather than stay in France? What is different about this country?

No, my Lords, I fully understood the noble Lord's question.

My Lords, I understand that the volume of freight being carried through the tunnel has been reduced to only 50 per cent of what it was before the trouble started. Can the Minister offer us any comfort by telling us, apart from the security measures that he mentioned, what other satisfactory measures can be taken to ensure that freight and the full economic viability of the tunnel return?

My Lords, as I said, we will not achieve full resumption of the freight service until the security measures are available at Fréthun. That in turn depends on co-operation on the French side from SNCF and the French security services, so that adequate security is provided. Only once there is adequate security there can the full freight service be resumed from Fréthun.

My Lords, can the noble and learned Lord tell us how many people have lost their lives in and around the entrance to the tunnel?

My Lords, I cannot say what is the total number, but there have been two fatalities during the course of this year alone.

My Lords, is the noble and learned Lord aware that, fond as we all are of him and much as, at times, we admire his style if not the content of his answers, he has gone a little too far today in refusing to answer in any seriousness the question put to him twice by my noble friend Lord Pearson? Does he agree that the House deserves something more than a flippant reply of the kind that he gave?

My Lords, I did not intend in any way to be disrespectful to the noble Lord, Lord Pearson. His question is one that we could all speculate on; it is not a question of particular fact that would be appropriate for me to answer.