Address in Reply to Her Majesty's Most Gracious Speech

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 10:55 pm on 28 June 2001.

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Photo of Lord Redesdale Lord Redesdale Liberal Democrat 10:55, 28 June 2001

My Lords, I should like to welcome the gracious Speech. I believe that at this point it is traditional to remark that we have had a wide-ranging debate, moving from the detailed remarks of my noble friend Lord Avebury on Afghanistan through to the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, on Latin America. Europe was mentioned by almost every noble Lord. Finally, I touch on The Hague, which is in the news at the moment. As we speak, news reports have announced that former President Milosevic is being delivered to be indicted as a war criminal, which perhaps should have happened some time ago.

The gracious Speech has set out the Government's plans. Noble Lords on these Benches are overjoyed to see certain Bills reintroduced and new legislation being brought before Parliament. We are especially pleased to see that the International Development Bill has returned. We would have supported that measure had it gone through during the wash-up period of the last Session, but now we shall have an opportunity to look at it again.

Another Bill which is to come before us shortly is the British Overseas Territories Bill. I have one or two questions to put to the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, on that measure, but first I should like to congratulate her on her new position. In the round of congratulations I felt that the noble Baroness was rather left out. International development should have been first on the list of subjects covered in our debate, but it appears to have been sandwiched in the middle.

I shall raise two issues on Second Reading of the British Overseas Territories Bill. The first is the question of uniforms. It seems amazing that, just as a Bill which has been so eagerly anticipated and will do so much good for the dependent territories is brought forward, the Foreign Office has picked this week to release a story that the dependent territories are to be asked to pay for their own uniforms. It may not represent a massive financial expenditure, but the timing of such a statement might be questioned. I understand that the Government are seeking to institute a cost-cutting exercise which might well backfire. I have read a report from the well-known tailor, Gieves and Hawkes, which in financial terms will be badly affected by this. The company has stated that it would be inappropriate to stand underneath the Union Jack in a suit.

Secondly, I wish to raise the issue of the British Indian Ocean Territory. The lease on the American air base on Diego Garcia is to come to an end in 2015. The plight of the Ilois, who were forcibly removed from the island to make way for the Americans, is an issue that will be raised in our debates.

I have been given a strict time limit by my noble friend on the Front Bench. He said that I must stick to it because no one else has done so. I shall charge straight into Europe. Noble Lords on these Benches are well known for their Europhile sympathies and therefore it was with great joy that we listened to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Bach. His approach to Europe was extremely positive. During the general election I campaigned in London and the North East. Although Europe was not a question I encountered every day on the doorstep, it is on people's minds. I believe that we need to hold a debate. If we are to have a referendum on adoption of the euro--something that these Benches wish to see held as soon as possible--then there has to be a degree of understanding of both sides of the argument.

Perhaps I may indicate just how little this argument has been aired at the detailed, nitty-gritty level. I have asked many noble Lords around the Chamber what is the euro equivalent of the penny? Most people know the euro equivalent of the pound, but I have found only one noble Lord who knows its equivalence in pence. That was the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell. I shall not mention which Minister had a stab at "eurettes", but that is not the correct answer. The importance of the question is that if you have to ask what it is, that perhaps underlines the point about the argument not being expressed properly.

This is important because of the recent situation in Ireland, where local matters affected the result of the referendum. Most people did not understand the issue and were not prepared for the referendum. I believe that it came as a shock to many of the people of Ireland that the referendum was lost, with all the implications that that will have for Ireland, a country which has benefited from much largesse from Europe.

As this is a defence debate, I should perhaps use a phrase that was quoted repeatedly to us at Sandhurst--that is, that failure to prepare is preparing to fail. I believe that those of us who will be on the "yes" side of the campaign need to get our message across.

The issue of turn-out is also raised by the Irish referendum, and similarly by our own general election. As we are about to head down the road of referendums, we should question what level of turn-out will give a referendum electoral legitimacy.

I should like to use the euro analogy in regard to national missile defence. The euro has five test criteria; I shall suggest five test criteria that we should look at in terms of how we view missile defence.

Although it is not one of the criteria, I believe that the name "missile defence" gives an indication of the direction the policy will take. It is obviously an American initiative designed to protect the land mass of the United States. However, we have to look at missile defence in a different light.

The first question is whether it is feasible at all. There have been three test firings and interceptions, two of which failed. The first test was successful. However, it was stated in the New York Times that the missile that was intercepted, surprisingly enough, had a global positioning system inserted into the nose cone. Although the Pentagon stated that this had no bearing on the success of the test, it is surprising that a missile that is about to be destroyed should have a GPS in its nose.

The second question is whether it will actually happen. It has been put forward in America that the cost of the system will be between 200 billion and 300 billion US dollars. It is claimed that the system is designed to make the world a safer place. If that 200 billion to 300 billion US dollars was spent on poverty reduction, the world would be a safer place. That, perhaps, is a prime consideration.

The third consideration is whether it will make the world a safer place. Those who are supporters of the NMD programme have drawn comfort from the fact that President Putin did not attack the system with the same vigour that probably would have been the case a few years ago. The simple answer is that Russia is not in a financial position to attack on this issue. Russia is in great financial difficulty and, therefore, had problems in putting forward its case. However, this will do nothing for the feeling in Russia that this system is for its benefit. If the cost is to be 200 to 300 billion US dollars, I very much doubt--although it has been offered--that a significant system would ever be set up in Russia.

Another consideration, of course, is that if America had a working system it would have a first strike capability against Russia and China. This is very worrying indeed. Obviously it will not lead to a feeling of security throughout the world.

The fourth question relates more to these shores. Will such a system make us safer? It will break the anti-ballistic missile treaty, and that cannot be a good thing. The unilateral destruction of an international treaty is not to be encouraged. Another consideration is that, whether or not the system works against missiles, it works only against ballistic missiles. The delivery of a nuclear warhead does not necessitate the use of a ballistic missile. In fact, a ballistic missile is probably one of the least effective delivery systems. One of the best means of delivery would be to put the warhead in a crate and deliver it by boat to New York. No system is perfect--as was demonstrated when a German flew a light aircraft through one of the most heavily defended anti-aircraft missile corridors and landed it in Red Square.

The fifth criterion is whether national missile defence will be popular in this country. It is an issue that arose on the doorstep during the election campaign. There are those who are very unhappy about the idea that Fylingdales will be used in the make-up of the system.

I have probably gone over the time that I set myself. I should very much like to have gone into the subject of AIDS, addressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Rawlings, and the noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso. However, I believe that all I should be doing would be to rehearse the Second Reading speeches that we shall hear in the remaining weeks before the recess.

I conclude by highlighting points raised in the fine speech made by my noble friend Lord Alderdice relating to the problem of internal conflict, which is by far the most devastating recent phenomenon; namely, that wars are not fought between states but within states--usually the poorest states. The weapons that are used are not tanks, aircraft or the aircraft carriers that we have heard are to be given the go-ahead; they are the Kalashnikov, the land-mine and, in Africa, the machete. On that basis, anything that reduces the all too prevalent flow of small arms around the world must be a good thing. I particularly welcome the proposed legislation relating to the export of small arms.