My Lords, the noble Baroness will recognise that I am not in the business of identifying particular individuals. I hear exactly what she says in that context, but she knows that the board of visitors comprised others who did not fit into that pattern. The noble Baroness is right that we need to see greater numbers of younger people becoming members of boards of visitors and a greater representation of ethnic minorities. The imbalance between the sexes is also shown on so many boards of visitors.

I seek to make the point that we have not been able to recruit as effectively as we would like and to bring into the general framework of boards of visitors as many of our fellow citizens as we would wish. Part of the difficulties at Haslar reflected some of those features.

The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, put a number of other questions to me. I can tell him that the new governor will take up his position in the very near future. A decision on that is imminent. I hope that I have been able to reassure him on that point.

The noble Lord also mentioned the position as regards the board of visitors at Holloway. It has put forward its views on the triennial review system. I do not think that there is any doubt that the Holloway report, following the inquiry, made some helpful recommendations on procedures to be followed in the triennial review process. The suggestions contained in that report may be substantiated in the report from Sir Peter Lloyd, which we look forward to receiving in due course. At the point we expect to take the next significant step forward in the development of this system.

Perhaps I may refer to the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, who raised an issue regarding people at Haslar who have not been found guilty of any offence. She stated that they are treated on exactly the same basis as convicted prisoners. I can reassure the noble Baroness that different treatment is offered appropriate to the needs of unconvicted people at Haslar. Two regimes operate and reflect the needs of the different groups. The noble Baroness mentioned in particular the mandatory drugs test. I can tell her that the test which is mandatory for prisoners is not for people being held on a different basis in the holding centre.

I have listened to the representations made this evening with great interest. I am aware that we have here an issue which reflects a difficult set of circumstances. It is clear that relationships broke down. Furthermore, it is obvious that the board of visitors, the probation staff and the governor had reached a point where effective operations could not be sustained. That led to the former governor leaving his post. It has also led to a reconstitution of the board of visitors which, I am happy to relate, appears to be working extremely well. It has given cause for celebration, in that improvements are now being effected in relationships. The scene is being set for a constructive relationship with the new governor.

I appreciate the fact that this debate has come about as a result of very real anxieties about a breakdown in the system, from which we need to learn lessons. I hope that I have succeeded in allaying some of the concerns which have been expressed and that I have responded to the particular questions put to me by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, in introducing the debate.