My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for introducing this debate. I am equally grateful to him for agreeing to postpone it from the rather infelicitous hour of one o'clock this morning. Unfortunately, that decision led to one casualty: the right reverend Prelate the Lord Bishop of Portsmouth. I know that he intended to make a characteristically constructive contribution. I place on record my regret that he is unable to join in the debate this evening, but I shall make myself available to listen to his representations which I know will be helpful in dealing with what we all recognise is an issue of great importance.

I also appreciated the contribution by the noble Viscount, Lord Bridgeman, who helped to put the debate into context. He is right that we need to look forward to the findings of Sir Peter Lloyd who is due to report in the very near future. He will have a range of recommendations to make on issues that have caused concern to every noble Lord who has participated in the debate this evening. I expect that some of those issues will be addressed accurately in the report. In the course of my contribution I shall seek to answer as many detailed questions as I can, but I hope that noble Lords will forgive me if I do not succeed in replying to all of them. I shall write to noble Lords in areas where there is a deficiency.

What is outstanding about all the contributions so well expressed this evening is noble Lords' respect for the board of visitors and the role that it plays in our system. Therefore, there is the inevitable regret and anxiety which develops when matters have gone wrong. No one can begin to approach the issue with regard to the Haslar holding centre without recognising that a number of mistakes have been made and difficulties have occurred. The noble Viscount, Lord Bridgeman, in his opening remarks, identified the matter very accurately when he said that there had been clashes of personality and difficulties which were not resolved in the way we would ordinarily expect them to be resolved.

This evening we have had a very accurate definition of the ideal role which the Board of Visitors should play. We must strive towards that ideal as best we can. As noble Lords have identified, we have few people willing and able to come forward. Perhaps, as a society, we should be more solicitous about the need for people to come forward for this role. We defined it as essential. The people who come forward make an enormous contribution to the operation of our prison system. We owe them a very great debt of gratitude. However, from time to time difficulties will develop, as they clearly have in this case.

The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, who originated the debate, had a number of specific questions to which he rightly expects replies. Let me preface my remarks by a slight note of regret. The noble Lord referred to his meeting with my right honourable friend Paul Boating, the Minister of State. I had hoped that that meeting would have led to many of the anxieties which the noble Lord has expressed this evening being allayed.

There is a sense that, in some respects, the process has been back to front. The meeting with the Minister has taken place before we have had a general airing of the issues. It is often more constructive to deal with the Minister after the broad issues have been opened up in debate, either in this House or in the other place. I recognise that there were specific questions which the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, wanted answered which I had hoped would have been answered. But I shall do my best to answer them.

The noble Lord is quite right in his supposition that the board of visitors is quite within its rights to interview prisoners out of the sight and hearing of officers. It has the right to carry out a survey. Such a survey is best effected--