My Lords, perhaps I may begin by thanking my noble friend Lord Avebury for giving us this opportunity to debate Haslar Prison, and matters relating to its board of visitors. The events at Haslar must concern us all, and it is not difficult to see why. We are discussing this prison because it has a population of immigration detainees. As I have repeatedly pointed out in various debates, we are worried about the detention of asylum seekers, especially those who have exhausted their legal remedies to remain here prior to their removal.

It must be a matter of serious concern to hold immigration detainees when Ministers have stated repeatedly that there are not the appropriate places for them. Yet we pride ourselves on creating more places in our prisons for them. If we had a system that was free of backlog and dealt with applications much quicker, the problem about immigration detainees would certainly diminish to an extent. I am well aware that we are talking about the position of the members of the board of visitors at this particular prison. But, obviously, there is relevance in much of what I have said so far.

Many of the present policies relating to our asylum seekers are very muddled. We are concerned that the automatic bail appearance provisions in the 1999 Act may never be brought into effect. Why has it taken so long? When do we expect that to happen? Limited information from the Home Office stated that this provision would be implemented by May 2000. We were then told that the computer system was not ready, after which the date slipped to October of last year and then to spring of this year. I suspect--and this is confirmed by many who are involved in dealing with asylum matters--that there is likely to be even further delay. No wonder the detention population is rising. At the root of this confusion is the basic principle that all immigrant detainees should be brought before magistrates within eight days and, if still detained, after a further 36 days to question whether detention should continue.

The Minister would not find it difficult to refer to Section 44 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999. After all, this was the Government's flagship designed to remove the chaotic conditions faced by entrants to this country. Why this delay? The Secretary of State does have discretion by order to amend the circumstances in which a person may be granted bail, which already applies to those in respect of whom directions for their removal from the United Kingdom are in force.

The problems at Haslar have their origins in the breakdown of relationships between the governor and the board of visitors. I am probably one of the few Members, if any, of your Lordships' House who has served as a member of a board of visitors. I did so for over a decade. The Prison Act 1898 officially introduced boards of visitors. Their duties were to inspect, hear applications--most of which were complaints and queries from prisoners--and to deal with adjudications relating to breach of prison discipline. Needless to say the 1952 Prison Act required board members to be Home Secretary appointed.

It is worth pointing out that prisons are very oppressive institutions. Until the introduction of boards of visitors there was no access to outsiders within our prisons. To a great extent board members perform a useful task. They reflect a balance of people within the community between magistrates and non-magistrates and between the sexes. They constitute a mix of ages and occupations. That task is often resented by prison officers and, from time to time, by governors.

The main role of the board of visitors is that of an informed watchdog for the Secretary of State independent of the management of the prisons in which the prisoners are held. This is where conflict is bound to arise. The prison governors who manage our prisons often find board of visitor members obstructive because management decisions are often questioned. It is a healthy sign that such a tension should prevail. Inmates may lose many of their rights when sentenced but there always remain residual rights. It is for board members to ensure that those are never denied to those whom we imprison. Take away boards of visitors and we shall find ourselves back in the Victorian ways of managing our prisons.

I have been associated with many prisons in this country. More importantly, I chair NACRO, the National Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders. We have undertaken many major activities in prisons. We undertook a prison and race survey with the full co-operation of the Prison Service. The Director General, Martin Narey, to his credit, accepted our findings and introduced a number of changes affecting race relations in prisons. That we have welcomed.

It was not surprising, therefore, that the Haslar board also wished to carry out a race survey which seems to be one of the causes of the breakdown of relations between the board of visitors and the governor. I need not elaborate on that point as my noble friend Lord Avebury has sketched the history of the events there.

The board of visitors in Haslar should be congratulated on the way it went about its task. Almost all agencies working with the Prison Service welcomed the findings of the board of visitors. In fact, the situation in Haslar was even worse than the one NACRO found in other prisons. Overall there was a higher level of dissatisfaction among Haslar detainees. The uncertainties in a holding centre no doubt played an important part in that. But there was also a positive side to the survey. Haslar detainees were more satisfied with access to education and with the library stock than were prisoners in the NACRO survey. However, there were other matters of concern. Asian detainees were much less satisfied than other detainees with religious services, food, access to work, education, counselling and legal advice.

It is important to identify shortcomings in our prisons. It is important to put right what is wrong in our prisons. More importantly, surveys of this nature identify particular areas needing attention which can affect one group in an establishment more than others.

Let us not forget that here we are talking not of criminals, not of those who have committed any crime but of those who have sought asylum in this country. But herein lies the root cause of the problem at Haslar. I shall not repeat the public perception of the three dismissed members of the board of visitors at Haslar. No amount of gloss on the part of the Minister can convince me that the reason for the non-renewal is to enable the changing of boards gradually over the years. This was an unprecedented decision and comes at a time when the Government have announced their initiative to persuade the public to perform voluntary service. Ministers must have reasons. It is important that these are openly stated. If that is not done, people are entitled to make up their own minds.

Of course, there are bound to be occasions when members of boards of visitors do not fit in and then I see nothing wrong in their removal. If, however, standards in public life are to be maintained, not only should we appoint members who are well qualified but also we should reject those who are not. Unless that is done openly, suspicions are bound to arise.

As my noble friend Lord Avebury has just said, the Minister explicitly agreed at Brighton to allow the board of visitors to conduct the Haslar race survey. Will he confirm that board members allege that they were subjected to bullying and intimidation by the governor? Has an investigation been carried out? Have the allegations been substantiated? It is no good complaining about the speed with which the survey was carried out. The board of visitors rightly said that it wasted no time in reporting the issues of serious concern reflected in the survey. I repeat, a named catering officer, when asked about catering arrangements for Jews, replied, "We have gas ovens, don't we? What more do they want?". I am simply quoting from the report. If such attitudes persist and are identified, those people should not work in our prisons.

The Haslar board was keen to carry out the race survey, which took place before the Commission for Racial Equality announced an investigation into racism in the Prison Service, because it had received only two applications from the immigration detainees at Haslar in the previous two years. The board had serious doubts about its own effectiveness and saw the publication of NACRO's Race and Prisons report as a vehicle for objectively evaluating its own performance. We at NACRO were approached and agreed not only to allow the board to use our questionnaire as a template in Haslar, but to review the draft report before publication. The governor was vehemently opposed to the proposed survey. As my noble friend Lord Avebury said, his reaction was:

"I view your conduct in this matter to be underhand, subversive and a blatant attempt to undermine my authority as Governor".

We still do not know how he reached such a view and on what basis he made that statement.

The facts about the survey are not in dispute. One can only conclude that three members of the Haslar board resigned during that period as a direct result of the governor's hostility to the board carrying out its lawful duties. If that is not so, we should know what the other reasons were. Intense pressure was put on the board to suppress the report.

The Home Office will have to make up its mind whether it wants boards of visitors to be the eyes, ears and conscience of the community. Unfortunately, the confidence of local BoVs is often eroded by their treatment by the Home Office. Haslar has shown how the Home Office can negate much of the good work that has been done. The message is, "If you want to remain a member of the board, stop causing problems".

I am also on the council of the Howard League for Penal Reform. We all strive for effective and valued boards of visitors. The Howard League feels that the image of BoVs is not of an independent group of people representing the community and ensuring that prisons operate humanely and effectively. Far too frequently, they have been portrayed as lapdogs or screws in suits instead of watchdogs, which is their acknowledged role. That perception is supported by many of our observations of board members. We have witnessed boards of visitors clustering around wing offices near staff instead of interacting with prisoners and investigating issues that are important to them. Some board members have even admitted that they are fearful or uncertain about talking to prisoners.

Board members require a clear job description so that they know the parameters of their function, including the limits of their role. Haslar remains a shameful chapter in the history of boards of visitors. The governor, the Prison Service and the Home Office reflect the unacceptable face of our prison policies.