Motion Moved on Consideration of Commons Amendment No. 52

– in the House of Lords at 5:30 pm on 24 July 2000.

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Photo of Baroness Hamwee Baroness Hamwee Liberal Democrat 5:30, 24 July 2000

had given notice of her intention to move, as an amendment to Commons Amendment No. 52, Amendments Nos. 52A and 52B.

52AClause 21, leave out lines 2 to 4 and insert--

("( ) requiring meetings mentioned in subsection (2), or particular proceedings at such meetings, to be open to the public when discussing matters pertaining to decisions (whether or not to be made at the meeting) or taking decisions,")

52BLeave out lines 5 to 7

Photo of Baroness Hamwee Baroness Hamwee Liberal Democrat

My Lords, I shall not press Amendments Nos. 52A and 52B. Perhaps I may take the opportunity to raise two matters with the Minister. First, he referred to the regulations which will deal with what are to be key decisions on the part of local authorities. Can he confirm that the definition of a key decision will not vary widely between authorities of a similar type and size? Secondly, the Minister has dealt with discussion about decisions which will be taken by individuals. Can he reassure the House that where decisions are based on draft reports, disclosure cannot be avoided by circulating drafts rather than final versions?

Photo of Lord Dixon-Smith Lord Dixon-Smith Conservative

My Lords, I wanted simply to comment that these improvements are welcome. As the Minister has explained, they take matters forward as a result of our debates at a much earlier stage of the Bill. I observe, however, that although guidance will be produced and regulations made in this matter, the question of what will form a key decision will remain in the hands of the councillors themselves via the council. That is how I understand the position.

If the councillors are to decide what is to be a key decision to be taken in the open, unless strict regulation is put in place, of which I do not generally approve, we may be putting in place a fallible system. Perhaps the old rules of openness which, in their blanket application, were rather more simple and straightforward--apart from appropriate exclusions--were better. However, perhaps that comment is unnecessary because I do not want to oppose the amendment.

Photo of Lord Whitty Lord Whitty Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Environment, Transport and the Regions)

My Lords, I owe both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord some explanation of the position as regards key decisions. If we are to avoid too little information being disclosed, or alternatively a huge amount of paperwork masking the real issues of concern, key decisions will require careful definition. We are still in the process of consultation on this. We are analysing the responses we have received. However, the vital principle is clear. Where a decision will have any significant impact on the community, the electorate involved should be able to influence that decision. That means that it must be made openly and in public.

With regard to key decisions, regardless of whether they are being taken collectively by the executive or by an individual officer, people will be told about the planning behind such a decision, they will know how to contribute to the decision-making process and they will have a right of early access to papers. In that regard, we shall prevent by regulation any abuse covering the disclosure of draft reports. Reports will need to be available at least three days before any decision is taken. I hope that that goes some way towards meeting the point raised by the noble Baroness.

Although I cannot give the House a definitive interpretation of a "key decision", I am sure that the responses we have received to our consultation will guide us towards formulating a definition that will meet the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith.

[Amendments Nos. 52A and 52B, as amendments to Commons Amendment No. 52, not moved.]

On Question, Motion agreed to.