Levelling Up, Housing and Communities – in the House of Commons at on 10 July 2023.
Patrick Grady
Scottish National Party, Glasgow North
What assessment he has made of the strength of the Union.
Michael Gove
Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities
The Union, and support for the Union, is strong, and I was delighted to note that, in the most recent opinion polls, support for independence in Scotland is plummeting.
Patrick Grady
Scottish National Party, Glasgow North
That is a very interesting definition of “plummeting”, when that support consistently remains higher than it was in the independence referendum of 2014. We were told during that campaign and afterwards that Scotland would have one of the most powerful wee devolved sub-state legislatures in the entire world, if not the universe, so what is the Government’s baseline for that? Can the Secretary of State give us some examples of Parliaments that are more or less powerful than the Scottish Parliament?
Michael Gove
Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities
I would just note that, at the referendum to which the hon. Member refers, support for independence was at 45%, but it is currently at 37% in the polls, and 37 is eight less than 45. More broadly, the Scottish Parliament has significant powers. It is a pity that the Scottish Government do not use them and, unfortunately, as a result Scotland’s people are let down when it comes to education, where Scotland is tumbling down. Scotland, sadly, does not have the reforms that we have had in England, which have seen us rise up international league tables. It used to be the case that Scotland’s education system was the pride of the globe, but it is now England that has the best readers of the western world.
Chris Stephens
Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Levelling Up)
I want to ask the Secretary of State some questions on his role as the Minister for Intergovernmental Relations and drug policy, of which he has said a number of interesting things. He is on record saying this:
“public health measures, which are backed by strong scientific evidence, which follow the lead of the doctors, the clinicians, we should look seriously at them.”
Drug consumption rooms and the decriminalisation of possession of small quantities of drugs have been proved to work throughout the world, and they have now been proposed by the Scottish Government. Does the Secretary of State accept that the outright rejection of that by the UK Government at the weekend—out of hand—undermines the Scottish Government, undermines those campaigners and those who help drug users, and undermines the Union?
Michael Gove
Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities
No, I do not accept that, but the hon. Gentleman raises a very serious question. I have had the opportunity to discuss with Alison Thewliss some of the challenges that she faces in her Constituency. The hon. Gentleman and I both know that drug deaths in Scotland are unacceptably high, and there is no single answer to that problem, but I believe, as was outlined clearly by politicians from both the Government and the principal Opposition party, that the Scottish Government’s proposals are the wrong proposals at the wrong time.
Chris Stephens
Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Levelling Up)
I thank the Secretary of State for that answer, but the heads of all 31 UN agencies have called for possession decriminalisation, and more than 30 countries have made changes that have cut deaths and incarceration. There is no reasonable, rational and evidenced cause for the UK Government, or the Labour party, to reject the proposals out of hand. May I ask him seriously, in his role as Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, to be the grown-up on his side of the Chamber, and work and engage with the Scottish Government and drug campaigners on the issue?
Michael Gove
Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities
As the hon. Gentleman points out, this is a complex, challenging and heartbreaking issue. It is right that the Governments should work together, and with the NHS, law enforcement and others, to deal with this challenge, but I believe that the specific proposals for decriminalisation of possession proposed are not the best way forward.
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