Topical Questions

Justice – in the House of Commons on 14th September 2021.

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Photo of Patricia Gibson Patricia Gibson Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Housing, Communities and Local Government)

If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

May I take this opportunity to welcome the Minister of State, my right hon. and learned Friend Lucy Frazer, back to her place in the Ministry of Justice? We are grateful to see her back.

Our pets are valuable members of our families, and we rely on their companionship daily. This has been especially true throughout the pandemic. The reported rise in pet thefts throughout this time has being truly shocking, and the Government are not prepared to ignore the growing concern about this issue. The pet theft taskforce published its report this month, and it contains a comprehensive set of recommendations that would allow us to tackle this issue. Chief among them is the creation of a new offence of pet abduction. I agree wholeheartedly that this is the right course of action because it recognises that pets are more than mere property and distinguishes them from inanimate objects that can be replaced. The new offence also acknowledges that when the pet is stolen, there are two victims, not one. We will look to introduce the new offence when parliamentary time allows.

Photo of Patricia Gibson Patricia Gibson Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Housing, Communities and Local Government)

Does the Secretary of State believe that it is safe or appropriate for prison officers—the invisible emergency service—who by definition deal with the most violent and dangerous criminals across the UK, to be expected to do so up to the age of 68, which is their retirement age? Does he not agree that this completely unrealistic retirement age has negatively impacted on retention and recruitment rates?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

The hon. Lady is right to raise the retirement age issue. Indeed, the Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend Alex Chalk, rightly pointed out in answer to an earlier question that there had been two attempts in recent years to resolve this issue. No agreement was reached with the Prison Officers Association, but I very much hope that any future discussions will result in some agreement. We continue to look at this issue, and I want to put on record my warm tribute to the prison service and to the much hidden and misunderstood work of jailcraft that prison officers do, day in and day out, in England and Wales, and indeed in Scotland.

Photo of John Penrose John Penrose Conservative, Weston-Super-Mare

Drug use in our prisons lines the pockets of organised criminals and smuggling gangs, puts prison staff at risk of pressure from those same gangs and makes the already difficult job of prison rehabilitation far harder. How long do Ministers expect it to be before British prisons become practically drug free?

Photo of Alex Chalk Alex Chalk Assistant Whip, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice

My hon. Friend raises a critical point, and we agree, which is why we have invested £100 million in gate security to ensure, for example, that body scanners can be installed to allow concealed items to be detected, that there is money for counter-corruption, and that rehabilitation and treatment can take place in jail. A time when our jails are completely drug free is something that we aspire to, and we are making important progress.

Photo of Alex Cunningham Alex Cunningham Shadow Minister (Justice)

At the last Justice questions, I raised the issue of the wrongful prosecution and conviction of British citizens under schedule 22 to the Coronavirus Act 2020, an issue that has been publicised by Big Brother Watch, Fair Trials, and The Guardian newspaper. Sadly, the Minister blamed the Crown Prosecution Service and did not promise to correct this injustice, and more people might have been wrongly convicted since then. That said, following our intervention, the Government have expired the schedule. I am grateful for that, but can the Lord Chancellor tell us what action he is taking to quash all the illegal convictions?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

With respect to the hon. Gentleman, this is not a question of our blaming the Crown Prosecution Service. There is a constitutional principle here. The Crown Prosecution Service is independent, and the Law Officers are responsible for the superintendence of that service. I am sure that his colleague the shadow Solicitor General will be able to ask the Law Officers these questions in the next few days.

Photo of David Davis David Davis Conservative, Haltemprice and Howden

In the recent court decision to extradite Dr Mike Lynch, the Serious Fraud Office made a submission in defiance of normal standards of British justice. Despite the SFO finding no case to answer, it nevertheless recommended extradition to the United States. It did so because American prosecutors have a higher chance of conviction because they use coercion and threats to turn junior staff into prosecution witnesses, which is done without the prosecutors being required to tell the court. These tactics also prevent defence witnesses from appearing. We explicitly prohibit such behaviour in British courts because we believe it would undermine British justice, so the SFO should not be recommending the extradition of British citizens to face this parody of justice. Will the Justice Secretary review this, with a view to putting in place proper guidelines to prevent it happening in future?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

My right hon. Friend will appreciate that there are ongoing proceedings, including in the civil courts, and the extradition proceedings may be subject to further appeals, so it would not be right for me to comment directly on that case. The SFO is superintended by the Law Officers. However, I undertake to talk to him about the general issues of concern that he properly raises.

Photo of Kevin Brennan Kevin Brennan Labour, Cardiff West

The Secretary of State spoke earlier about pets being sold from garage forecourts. Just this week, on 10 September, the Welsh Labour Government in Cardiff introduced a new regulation that makes it an offence to sell a puppy or kitten that the seller has not bred themselves. Crucially, it also requires the seller to have bred the puppy or kitten on the premises, which puts a stop to transportation of the type he condemned. Will he undertake to bring forward similar regulations?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

I am always keen, as the hon. Gentleman knows, to make sure that the law in England and Wales is consistent. I will, of course, look carefully at that particular issue. The report is welcome as we particularly looked at a read-across to scrap metal and the way in which we banned cash payments there. The evidence is emerging, and we are gathering it as quickly as possible. We will do everything we can, consistent with an appropriate approach, to deal with this type of illegitimate trade in defenceless animals.

Photo of Giles Watling Giles Watling Conservative, Clacton

Last weekend a young man sadly lost his life in my constituency, and a county lines drug operation was peripherally involved. What are the Government doing to bring a stop to these county lines drug operations, which are ruining constituencies such as mine?

Photo of Kit Malthouse Kit Malthouse The Minister of State, Home Department

I am extremely sorry to hear about the event in my hon. Friend’s constituency, and I am pleased that he has raised it on the Floor of the House. He will know that, for the last two years, we have made dismantling the county lines business model a key priority of our work between the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice. He will be pleased to know that, following significant investment in the key exporting forces of London, the west midlands and Liverpool—Merseyside police—we have made significant progress. We reckon that we have managed to dismantle about a third of the county lines, but there is still significant work to do. He will be pleased to know that some counties, such as Essex and Norfolk, are showing significant success, but there is still a lot more to do to overcome this pernicious and particularly unpleasant business model that focuses on exploiting young and vulnerable people as part of its way of making money. I assure him that we will not stint over the coming years in trying to eradicate county lines from our country.

Photo of Sarah Champion Sarah Champion Chair, International Development Committee, Chair, International Development Committee

Too many people die in open water because of a lack of life-saving equipment. In May this year my constituent 16-year-old Sam Haycock drowned in a nearby lake. His friends tried to save his life, but they were unable to access the life belt because it was padlocked and they could not get it unlocked in time. It had been padlocked to prevent vandalism. The Criminal Damage Act 1971 contains no specific offence for the damage or destruction of life-saving equipment, so there is no deterrent to prevent vandalism. Does the Minister therefore agree that it is vital that appropriate and specific penalties are in place to save and protect the equipment that could have saved Sam’s life?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

The hon. Lady raises a case that shocks and concerns us all. I would be more than happy to talk to her directly about these issues. As she knows, the law of criminal damage is being reformed in other respects in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, but I want to make sure that we reflect the often devastating consequences of thoughtless and criminal acts of damage against vital pieces of life-saving equipment such as life belts.

Photo of Mark Pawsey Mark Pawsey Conservative, Rugby

My constituent is involved in a case where controlling and coercive behaviour is alleged, and the case has been delayed due to both covid and a number of failures within the court process. The delays mean she continues to have to interact with her ex-partner on matters such as arranging contact with their children, causing her great distress in the process. What steps is the Department taking to ensure that victims of domestic abuse are able to have their cases heard in a timely manner?

Photo of Chris Philp Chris Philp The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department

I am extremely sorry to hear of the experience hon. Friend’s constituent has undergone. I can confirm that this area is a priority in court recovery from covid. For example, domestic violence protection orders are being prioritised. In cases where there is a particular vulnerability, the judiciary, in deciding which cases to list, give that careful consideration. As I laid out in answer to the very first question, significant additional resources have gone into the justice system, which have resulted in higher levels of public family law disposals—they are significantly higher this year than last. We are using remote hearing technology and getting extra sitting days organised, for exactly the reasons he mentioned; hearing awful cases such as the one he described remains a significant priority.

Photo of Alan Brown Alan Brown Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Energy and Climate Change)

I come back to female Afghan judges, where the key question is: what steps is the Department taking to allow them safe passage out of Afghanistan? What timeframe is it working to? When does it think will be too late, because the executions will have begun?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

As I said to the House earlier, the Afghan relocations and assistance policy scheme covered the initial flights out. We have now extended and created a new scheme yesterday, which will cover and make a priority those particular judges. The hon. Gentleman knows that the issues in the country are complex and that colleagues across Government are working out ways in which we can facilitate safe passage, but I assure him that everybody who fits that category will get the warmest of welcomes in this country and that that work goes on daily. [Interruption.] I do not know how many times I can explain this: there is a clear plan and we are getting on with it.

Photo of Rob Butler Rob Butler Conservative, Aylesbury

Prison officers and staff have done an amazing, excellent job of keeping prisoners safe during the pandemic, with much lower infection rates in jails than had been feared. That has mainly been achieved by keeping prisoners locked in their cells, but, obviously, we now need to move beyond that so that they can access education, work and other rehabilitation programmes. So will the Minister tell the House what progress has been made on rolling out vaccines in prisons, which would allow this vital work to resume?

Photo of Alex Chalk Alex Chalk Assistant Whip, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is absolutely right to pay tribute, and let me tell him why. At the beginning of this pandemic there was a prediction that 2,700 prisoners would die in English jails, but the actual figure is under 130. Although every one of those is a tragedy, this is a powerful tribute to the work that those staff did. He makes an important point about vaccination. Every prisoner has been offered a vaccination, although there are some decline rates, which are higher in London, of up to 50%. Every effort is being made to encourage prisoners to get vaccinated, because we could then open up the regime.

Photo of Chi Onwurah Chi Onwurah Shadow Minister (Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy), Shadow Minister (Digital, Culture, Media and Sport)

Work cuts reoffending rates in half. The Recruitment Junction in my constituency has a 50% success rate in getting ex-offenders into work—that is twice the national average. It tells me that the biggest challenge is on housing, such as for my constituent “Stuart”, who was released after 30 years in prison and was provided with just eight weeks’ accommodation. If he does not find somewhere to live by tomorrow, he will be recalled into prison, at huge cost to himself and to the taxpayer. How is the Minister going to help Stuart to get somewhere to live by tomorrow?

Photo of Lucy Frazer Lucy Frazer The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice

The hon. Lady makes an important point, because if we want to cut crime, we have to reduce reoffending. That means we have to get people who come out of prison a job, they need to get a home and if they are on drugs, they need to get off drugs. This is absolutely what we are doing and in July we launched our £20 million scheme to provide temporary accommodation for prison leavers at risk of homelessness in five probation regions. We are also working closely with the Department for Work and Pensions to ensure that we have work coaches in prison to get people jobs.

Photo of Siobhan Baillie Siobhan Baillie Conservative, Stroud

Last year, the expert Family Solutions Group produced a hard-hitting report called “What about me?”, which focuses on the 280,000 children each year who experience their parents separating. With the divorce Act fast approaching and family courts increasingly stretched, will my right hon. and learned Friend meet me to discuss ideas and some of the report’s identified policy gaps on separating families?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

My hon. Friend has considerable professional experience as a family lawyer of distinction, and I am more than happy to speak to her. It sounds as if that report complements the family harm report that was published earlier this year and the excellent work that is being done by senior judiciary in the family division to minimise the fight when it comes to the future of our children.

Photo of Jeff Smith Jeff Smith Shadow Minister (Housing, Communities and Local Government)

The Law Commission is currently conducting an important review of intimate-image abuse that will, I hope, recommend making it an offence for a person to take photographs of someone breastfeeding without their consent. When does the Secretary of State expect that report to be published? Perhaps more importantly, what assurance can he provide that the report’s recommendations will be given timely, swift consideration and that action will be taken?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

I am grateful to the hon. Member for raising the Law Commission report. I will write to him to clarify the date by which the commission will publish that clearly important piece of work. There is a shared will throughout the House to take action wherever it is appropriate, and the hon. Member can rest assured that the Government will not slack when it comes to the protection of women and other vulnerable people.

Photo of Edward Timpson Edward Timpson Conservative, Eddisbury

I know, Mr Speaker, that you will be exercised by the Public Service Pensions and Judicial Offices Bill that is currently going through the other place, and particularly by clause 103, which will raise the retirement age of magistrates from 70 to 75, thus fulfilling the ambition behind the private Member’s Bill that I introduced in the previous Session. While we wait for that legislation to go through, what other measures is my right hon. and learned Friend taking to get through the backlog of cases in courts, particularly through online cases?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

My hon. Friend was himself a practitioner of many years’ standing. I assure him that we are using every tool available—including remote hearings, bringing back judges who have recently retired and, indeed, harnessing the entire legal profession—to deal with the number of cases before the courts. The restriction on sitting days has been lifted and colleagues in Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service are working tirelessly to deal with the case load.

Photo of Joanna Cherry Joanna Cherry Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Justice and Home Affairs)

May I return to the case of the female Afghan judges, which I raised yesterday with the Lord Chancellor’s Home Office colleague, the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, Victoria Atkins? A female former Afghan judge who escaped two assassination attempts by the Taliban and is now a British citizen contacted me at the weekend to explain the very real and immediate danger that her colleagues face, particularly from dangerous criminals and terrorists who have been released from prison. I am bringing her into Parliament at 5 pm this evening to meet informally with the Justice Committee; will the Lord Chancellor, or perhaps one of his junior colleagues, come to that meeting and meet this lady to hear at first hand how desperate the situation really is?

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

I will of course make sure that my diary is adjusted so that I can do that. The hon. and learned Lady can rest assured that I am getting emails from her colleagues directly to my parliamentary account. These are harrowing tales of harrowing experiences, which is why I meant what I said in my answers earlier. I am very grateful to the hon. and learned Lady.

Photo of David Lammy David Lammy Shadow Lord Chancellor and Shadow Secretary of State for Justice

Yes, Mr Speaker.

In oral questions, the whole House expressed tremendous concern about the situation that faces Afghan judges. In response to my question earlier, the Secretary of State for Justice said that he has not been written to by me once about judges in Afghanistan, in reference to my role as shadow Secretary of State for Justice. With all graciousness, I ask the Secretary of State to correct the record: I wrote to him on 16 August—I have the letter in front of me and it is available online—and he replied to me on 25 August.

Photo of Robert Buckland Robert Buckland The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am happy to correct the record and, of course, to apologise to the right hon. Gentleman. I remind him that I am more than happy to speak directly to him. He will know that the urgency of this situation means that phone calls and texts are absolutely acceptable, and I would be more than happy to discuss the matter with him in that way. As you know, Mr Speaker, this has been a very busy time, and I hope the House will forgive me if on this occasion I got it wrong. I do apologise to the right hon. Gentleman.