Marriage of same-sex couples in Northern Ireland

Part of Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill – in the House of Commons at 4:30 pm on 9 July 2019.

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Photo of John Penrose John Penrose The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office 4:30, 9 July 2019

Yes, I absolutely accept that there is great concern that by creating one list of amendments today we will, by omission, leave out some very important things indeed. I am afraid that is inherent in the frustration, which I referred to at the start of my remarks, about the fact that the Northern Ireland Assembly has not sat for well over two years now. I am afraid that frustration will only grow as that period lengthens. That is why the original purpose of the Bill, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State explained yesterday on Second Reading, is very simply to give a little more time for the Stormont talks to bear fruit. While those talks still have breath and life in them, I hope that everybody here will support that opportunity and wish the talks well.

Although I appreciate and sympathise with what the hon. Member for St Helens North is trying to achieve, I must at the same time issue a note of warning to anybody considering voting for it. It is a technical note of warning, rather than one of principle, because the principles have been debated extensively during our discussions this afternoon—because this is a free-vote issue, the Government will not be putting across a principled view, one way or another. The technical point, which needs to be made to ensure that everyone is aware, is that, due to the current drafting of new clause 1, the changes that would need to occur before the first same-sex couple could legally marry in Northern Ireland are probably not achievable, just as a practical matter, by October. There are many policy questions to be worked through that have not yet been properly considered for the Northern Ireland-specific context, which might require a different response from the one in England, Wales and Scotland.

That applies to matters such as pensions, the conversion of civil partnerships, gender recognition—we have heard many of those points made in contributions this afternoon—protecting the rights to freedom of religion and expression, and allowing religious institutions via opt-in, rather than compelling them, to engage in and perform same-sex marriage ceremonies. I would issue a technical warning to colleagues who are considering supporting the new clause in principle. Whether Members agree with it or not, and however they balance the competing claims of devolution and broader human rights, they should bear in mind the fact that it may need substantial further work before it can achieve its intended effect.

Amendment 13 deals with same-sex marriage reporting and would commit the Government to publishing a report on progress made in preparing legislation to make provision for the marriage of same-sex couples in Northern Ireland when publishing the overall progress report under clause 1. As I have mentioned, we are willing to accept it, but it would be afforded a free vote should it be pressed to a Division.

I turn to amendments on abortion, specifically amendments 11 and 9. We have mentioned that there are strongly held views, and this issue has attracted a great deal of debate over the past year. I can confirm that the Government would be content to accept amendments 9 and 11 on the basis that we are happy to report to Parliament on important matters on which everyone has strong views. I hope that Diana Johnson will be appreciative of our willingness and good will in that area.

Given the tightness of time, I shall move on, as I want to make sure that I cover everything. There are other abortion amendments, notably new clause 10, tabled by Stella Creasy, and amendments 11 and 12, which are associated proposals that deal with statements and bits and pieces. What I want to say about new clause 10 is similar to what I said about new clause 1—different topic, same point. Regardless of how Members are minded to vote on the underlying principle, there are real and genuine concerns about the technical effectiveness of new clause 10, so I issue the same technical note of warning to anyone wishing to vote for it if they have made up their mind on the basic points of principle that have been debated extensively.