– in the House of Commons at 1:59 pm on 13 November 2012.
Chris Williamson
Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government)
1:59,
13 November 2012
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I fear that yesterday the fire Minister, Brandon Lewis, inadvertently misled the House in responding to a question from me about reductions in funds for the fire service. He said that I
“might like to have a look at the figures, which show that the cut for fire authorities last year and the year that we are now in was 0.5%”.—[Hansard, 12 November 2012; Vol. 553, c. 15.]
I double-checked my figures yesterday with the House of Commons Library, which confirmed that the reduction in funds for fire authorities over that period was at least 6.5%, and that if specific grants were taken into account, the figure was even higher. I wonder, Mr Speaker, whether you might like to invite the Minister to return to the House to correct the record.
John Bercow
Chair, Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Speaker of the House of Commons, Speaker of the House of Commons, Chair, Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission
I have no need to invite a Minister to do that, but I will say two things to the hon. Gentleman. First, he has made his own point in his own way, with great clarity, and I hope he feels satisfied about that. Secondly, all Ministers are responsible for the accuracy or otherwise of their statements to the House. In the event of an inaccurate or incorrect statement, a Minister is responsible for correcting the record. The hon. Gentleman’s point will, I trust, have been heard.
David Tredinnick
Conservative, Bosworth
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In fact, I have two points of order, and have given you notice of one of them, which is about Parliament square. As you are aware, the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 made it possible for the square to be cleared, but unfortunately the remaining demonstration seems to have expanded, and is clearly in breach of the “prohibited activity” of keeping, placing or
“using any sleeping equipment…for the purpose of sleeping overnight”.
I wonder whether you are satisfied with the situation, Mr Speaker, given that only a few months ago an Act passed by Parliament came into force so that it could be addressed.
John Bercow
Chair, Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Speaker of the House of Commons, Speaker of the House of Commons, Chair, Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission
The short answer to the hon. Gentleman’s point of order is that, in respect of the situation in
Parliament square, I have rarely been satisfied—very rarely—and I am not satisfied about it now.
It is for the courts to enforce the law and the regime to which the hon. Gentleman has referred. I hope he will understand when I say that I do not wish to engage further with him on this matter at this time, but I shall be happy to look into it, and perhaps even to have a discussion with him outside the Chamber. However, I am sensitive to the inconvenience that he and other hon. and right hon. Members have experienced and continue to experience.
John Bercow
Chair, Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Speaker of the House of Commons, Speaker of the House of Commons, Chair, Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission
I have a feeling that the hon. Gentleman’s appetite for his second point of order is undiminished.
David Tredinnick
Conservative, Bosworth
It is, Mr Speaker; I am most grateful. It will not have escaped your notice that last
John Bercow
Chair, Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Speaker of the House of Commons, Speaker of the House of Commons, Chair, Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission
I am not sure on the latter point. However, the hon. Gentleman is quite right in his recollection of the previous content of Sessional Orders. I understand that they ceased to include any such reference because it was judged that the reference was ineffective, in that there was no legal power of enforcement. We might have felt better, in and of ourselves, with such an order, but it did not actually work. Whether the fact that the alternative state of affairs is not working either is satisfactory is another matter.
I understand why the hon. Gentleman is dissatisfied, and, again, I shall be happy to have further conversations with him. I am sure that the House will applaud the disinterested and public-spirited way in which he seeks to uphold not only his own rights, but those of hon. and right hon. Members throughout the House.
If there is no further point of order, either from the hon. Gentleman or from any other Member, perhaps we can now deal with the ten-minute rule motion.
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The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
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