Oral Answers to Questions — Home Department – in the House of Commons at 2:30 pm on 9 June 2008.
How many police officers there were in North Yorkshire in (a) December 1979, (b) December 1997 and (c) December 2007.
The published figures show that North Yorkshire had 1,342 police officers in March 1979, 1,337 in March 1997, and 1,606 in September 2007. Police officer numbers have increased by some 20 per cent. in the force since 1997—well above the 11 per cent. increase for England and Wales. In addition, there are some 188 police community support officers, and with 1,100 or so police staff there has been almost a doubling of police staff since 1997.
There you have it, Mr. Speaker. Under the Conservatives, the number of police officers in North Yorkshire fell and crime rose. Under Labour, the number of police officers has risen substantially and crime has fallen. Can my right hon. Friend reassure me that the policing and crime reduction Bill, which the Government propose to introduce next year, will lock in those gains and ensure further reductions in crime in North Yorkshire?
I can assure my hon. Friend that that will certainly be at the centre of the policing Green Paper. I can also assure him that the balance between urban and rural policing efforts will be equally to the fore in that Green Paper and in future policing in North Yorkshire.
How many of those additional police officers are stuck back in the police stations, filling in the forms that the Government have insisted they spend all their time doing?
In answer directly to the hon. Gentleman's cliché-ridden question, let me say that the answer is fewer and fewer. I can assure him that, when we get the full results of the pilot being carried out in the Staffordshire, West Midlands, Leicestershire and Surrey forces and implement that throughout the country, there will be substantially more police officers out on the streets, rather than filling out paperwork in the station.
The Minister referred to PCSOs, and I understand that the budget is ring-fenced only for a limited period. How does he propose that North Yorkshire police find the additional funds to pay for PCSOs in future?
The hon. Lady will have noticed that, uniquely, in the past couple of years the Government have implemented their spending plans in three-year chunks; it is called the comprehensive spending review. This is the first year of a three-year chunk, and we are absolutely committed to that ring-fencing continuing for those three years. I am sure that if my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and I have anything to do with it, the funding will continue thereafter. North Yorkshire can certainly be guaranteed that that ring-fencing will continue, not least because of the huge success of police community support officers across the country in supporting and complementing the role of police officers.
I send my condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of the officer who died while training.
The Flanagan report, which Ministers backed in February, stated that
"maintaining police numbers at their current level is not sustainable over the course of the next three years."
Will the Minister listen to the police service, change his mind and pledge to maintain both the number of police in North Yorkshire, and the current national figure of 141,284?
I made it very clear during either the constables' or the sergeants' conference at the Police Federation conference——they were both such huge fun that I cannot remember which it was—that we thought that 140,000 or thereabouts was the appropriate national complement. It is unusual for the hon. Gentleman to be so centrist in his deliberations. I will not dictate to each and every chief constable across the country and tell them how many police officers they should have. That is a matter principally for them. [Interruption.] Centralist rather than centrist. Centralising, probably; okay. The autonomy of each and every force is very important. It is for local communities, served by their local constabulary, to determine what the mix should be of police staff, PCSOs and police officers. If we are really to achieve, on a cross-party basis, what Mr. Goodwill suggests—that is, if we are to get more and more of our police officers out on the streets, rather than having them waylaid by bureaucracy—through measures such as the use of hand-held devices and the pilots currently being carried out, a fixation on numbers is not sufficient; it is a rather sub-intellectual attitude towards policing for the future.