Oral Answers to Questions — Church Commissioners – in the House of Commons at 10:30 am on 7 February 2008.
Robert Key
Conservative, Salisbury
10:30,
7 February 2008
With reference to the Ecclesiastical Offices (Terms of Service) Measure, for what reason the ownership of a parsonage house is being removed from incumbents and vested in the diocese.
Stuart Bell
Second Church Estates Commissioner
Good morning, Mr. Speaker. The proposal, which recognises that housing is an important element in the terms of service of office holders, seeks the provision of appropriate accommodation and the establishment of a consistent framework to govern the relationship between housing providers and office holders.
Robert Key
Conservative, Salisbury
Will the Church commissioners listen carefully to the concerns of the diocesan synods and the meeting of the Church of England General Synod next week about this transfer of £4 billion of property from the parishes to the dioceses? The current legal vehicle, the corporation sole, ensures unencumbered continuity of these properties from generation to generation. The new trust will not do that. Will the hon. Gentleman assure me that the commissioners will look carefully to see that the property vested in the new parsonage boards of the dioceses will be as safe and inviolable as it is under the current legal arrangements?
Stuart Bell
Second Church Estates Commissioner
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we shall listen very carefully to the views of the General Synod next week. As he will know, "Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar". To reverse the role, we must render unto the General Synod that which belongs to the General Synod. It will meet next week to discuss the matter. There are differences of views, but the hon. Gentleman, who is a member of the Synod, will be able to participate in those proceedings as well as the proceedings here.
David Taylor
Labour, North West Leicestershire
A large proportion of parsonage houses were endowed locally. Land was given by a local landowner, and the houses were often built by a local individual after a fundraising effort on a grand scale. Why should we interfere with arrangements that have worked well for many years? We are transferring the title to the diocesan body, which will undoubtedly have a significantly different agenda of its own—different from that of the local community.
Stuart Bell
Second Church Estates Commissioner
In order to enlighten my hon. Friend and the House on what will be proposed and debated at the Synod next week, I can tell him that the primary aim of the legislation is to improve the security of the clergy by giving them rights equivalent to those enjoyed by employees under the Employment Relations Act 1999. As I said, the General Synod will consider that significant piece of legislation next week, and we await the outcome of its considerations.
Richard Benyon
Opposition Whip (Commons)
I refer hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members' Interests. I would like to follow up a point made by David Taylor. Many parsonage homes were endowed locally for the furtherance of the Church's work locally. This centralising measure will take power away from benefices and give it to diocesan boards of finance. Will the hon. Gentleman representing the Church commissioners convey the serious concern that exists among a great many people throughout the country about this centralising measure?
Stuart Bell
Second Church Estates Commissioner
I welcome the hon. Gentleman to these question sessions, and I also welcome the pertinence of his question. Clearly, the matter he raises preoccupies Members of the House. The General Synod will be aware of that when it meets next week, and I have no doubt that the views expressed here will be taken into account in its debates.
Matters concerning the established Church of England are dealt with at Question Time by a parliamentary representative of the church commissioners.
The church commissioner's role is to answer any parliamentary questions relating to the Church of England in the same way that a government minister may face questions about a particular government department.
The Second Church Estates Commissioner is appointed by the crown and is traditionally a backbench member of the party in government. The appointment lasts for the duration of the Parliament.
The Speaker is an MP who has been elected to act as Chairman during debates in the House of Commons. He or she is responsible for ensuring that the rules laid down by the House for the carrying out of its business are observed. It is the Speaker who calls MPs to speak, and maintains order in the House. He or she acts as the House's representative in its relations with outside bodies and the other elements of Parliament such as the Lords and the Monarch. The Speaker is also responsible for protecting the interests of minorities in the House. He or she must ensure that the holders of an opinion, however unpopular, are allowed to put across their view without undue obstruction. It is also the Speaker who reprimands, on behalf of the House, an MP brought to the Bar of the House. In the case of disobedience the Speaker can 'name' an MP which results in their suspension from the House for a period. The Speaker must be impartial in all matters. He or she is elected by MPs in the House of Commons but then ceases to be involved in party politics. All sides in the House rely on the Speaker's disinterest. Even after retirement a former Speaker will not take part in political issues. Taking on the office means losing close contact with old colleagues and keeping apart from all groups and interests, even avoiding using the House of Commons dining rooms or bars. The Speaker continues as a Member of Parliament dealing with constituent's letters and problems. By tradition other candidates from the major parties do not contest the Speaker's seat at a General Election. The Speakership dates back to 1377 when Sir Thomas Hungerford was appointed to the role. The title Speaker comes from the fact that the Speaker was the official spokesman of the House of Commons to the Monarch. In the early years of the office, several Speakers suffered violent deaths when they presented unwelcome news to the King. Further information can be obtained from factsheet M2 on the UK Parliament website.
