Paramilitary Groups

Oral Answers to Questions — Northern Ireland – in the House of Commons at 11:30 am on 14th November 2007.

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Photo of Andrew MacKay Andrew MacKay Senior Parliamentary & Political Advisor To David Cameron 11:30 am, 14th November 2007

What recent assessment he has made of the activities of dissident republican groups in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.

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Photo of Nadine Dorries Nadine Dorries Conservative, Mid Bedfordshire

What recent assessment he has made of the activities of loyalist and republican groups in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.

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Photo of Shailesh Vara Shailesh Vara Shadow Deputy Leader of the House of Commons

If he will make a statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland.

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

Hon. Members will be aware of the report published last week by the Independent Monitoring Commission that outlined the activities of all loyalist and republican groups, but I am sure they will want to join me in condemning the two attacks in the past week on two police officers, Paul Musgrave and Jim Doherty. Those cowardly attacks are in stark contrast to the professionalism and dedication of the PSNI.

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Photo of Andrew MacKay Andrew MacKay Senior Parliamentary & Political Advisor To David Cameron

I endorse the Secretary of State's remarks about the attacks on the two police officers. Is he satisfied, first, that new police recruits are being given the right training to avoid assassination attacks and, secondly that mainstream republicans are really coming forward and helping the police to deal with dissident republicans who might well have been responsible for those two attacks?

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

The answer to the first question is yes, I am satisfied, but that is of course a matter for the Chief Constable. I regularly discuss these matters with him, and he has never indicated to me that it is a problem. As for the second question, I think we must look at the immediate statement made by republicans in response to all the attacks that have taken place in the past few weeks. They have been unequivocal in their condemnation of the attacks and have, with absolute clarity, asked everyone across the communities to come forward with evidence.

I can also tell the right hon. Gentleman that I have had discussions with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in the Republic. He tells me—as, indeed, does the Chief Constable of the PSNI—that in all three of the investigations that are under way, there is an unprecedented level of co-operation by the public in all communities. That stands in marked contrast with the position just a few years ago, and is being encouraged at every level of leadership in Sinn Fein.

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Photo of Nadine Dorries Nadine Dorries Conservative, Mid Bedfordshire

Does the Minister agree that there is a difference between decommissioning and putting weapons beyond use? The Ulster Freedom Fighters have said that they will put their weapons beyond use, but if stability and peace are truly to exist in Northern Ireland do we not need to see the destruction of all weapons and full decommissioning?

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. When it comes to decommissioning, I think that every Member would like to see every weapon put beyond use and destroyed this evening—not tomorrow, not next week, not next month, not next year. The fact is, however, that decommissioning is a process. I am glad to report that groups such as the UDA are now engaging with the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning in a way that they have not done before. This weekend's statement by the UDA is to be welcomed, but I agree with the hon. Lady that—and I think that all Members will agree with this—it will be actions, not words, that count. We want to see these weapons decommissioned, and decommissioned now.

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Photo of Shailesh Vara Shailesh Vara Shadow Deputy Leader of the House of Commons

The recent monitoring commission report said that individuals and communities have suffered a lot as a result of paramilitarism. What do the Government propose to do to help those individuals and communities to rebuild themselves and their society?

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

There has undoubtedly been a great deal of suffering in communities during nearly four decades of troubles in Northern Ireland. However, it is clear that people in Northern Ireland are now living in a new era. The activities of a very small, limited number of people are being entirely condemned by every decent person north and south in Ireland. A number of things can be done to bring the communities out of the grip, in some remaining areas, of paramilitary activity, but part of that work is now the devolved responsibility of the new Administration and the Department for Social Development. I commend the work that is being done by Minister Ritchie to help those communities that are in the grip of paramilitary activity to come out of it. In the end, co-operation between all of us across the community, the Government here and the Government in Northern Ireland will ensure that we can help everyone to leave the past behind.

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Photo of Mark Durkan Mark Durkan Leader of the Social Democratic & Labour Party

All of us would wish to associate ourselves with the expressions of grief and shock at the Omagh fire tragedy.

I join the Secretary of State in condemning the murderous attacks on the two police officers. One of them was on a constituent of mine and the attack happened while he was taking a child to school. Does the Secretary of State agree that, by its violence and by the vicious terms of its statement, the Real IRA is showing that it is out not just to attack and threaten individual police officers, but to intimidate the wider public, particularly the nationalist public, who are increasingly demonstrating that they see the PSNI as acceptable, accessible and fully accountable—unlike the Real IRA, which they totally reject?

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

I had the opportunity yesterday to speak to the hon. Gentleman's constituent, Mr. Doherty, who was wounded in the attack last week. He suffered considerable damage, but he is in very good spirits and he is a great example to everyone of stoicism and commitment to the police force. He said to me last night that he could not wait to get back to work. I hope that he does not return too quickly and that he has some time with his family, who, we must remember, are also innocent victims of such attacks.

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the community. The Chief Constable tells me that we are seeing more co-operation from the community to try to bring those criminals to justice. This is going to be a choice for the community: we can leave the past behind, or we can move forward into a new future. That new future means that we have to support witnesses who come forward. Again, I am glad to say that the Chief Constable has made the position clear. He says that there is more co-operation than ever before from witnesses, and, critically, that he will give every protection he can to ensure that those witnesses can produce signed statements, that those signed statements can go into court and that the limited number of criminals who commit such crimes will be brought to book and put in jail, where they belong.

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Photo of Patrick Cormack Patrick Cormack Chair, Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, Chair, Northern Ireland Affairs Committee

I entirely endorse what the Secretary of State has just said and accept that there has been real and commendable progress since the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs produced its report on organised crime last July, but is it not still very disturbing that, clearly, a number of former paramilitaries are involved, are intimidating people and are taking part in crimes such as fuel smuggling in particular?

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

As the Minister of State said earlier, any crime must be condemned. Last year, the hon. Gentleman's Committee produced a very important and useful report on organised crime. It rightly identified a number of problems. Criminality, of course, remains a problem. However—I was discussing this with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in the Republic yesterday—there is no question but that the unparalleled levels of co-operation between the communities, the Gardai and the PSNI are leading to a net being drawn more and more tightly around those who would peddle their criminality. Whatever disguise they may be using, they are criminals. It is the determination of the Chief Constable and the commissioner in the south to close the net on those people. I am glad to say that we are seeing that in action now.

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Photo of Jim Devine Jim Devine Labour, Livingston

In welcoming Sunday's UDA statement, will my right hon. Friend join me in urging the Red Hand Commando to follow suit?

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

I entirely agree: it is extremely important that not only that paramilitary group but all paramilitary groups follow suit. I can only reiterate what I said earlier: decommissioning should happen now, not next week or next month. We want all the weapons to be handed in, we want an end to criminality, and we want the people of Northern Ireland to be allowed to have the peaceful and prosperous future that everyone else can enjoy.

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Photo of William McCrea William McCrea Shadow Spokesperson (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)

In the light of the statement of IMC member John Grieve about the murder of Paul Quinn, will the Secretary of State categorically assure the House that no stone will be left unturned in exposing Paul Quinn's murderers? They must be brought to justice, no matter how unpalatable that might be to some, and irrespective of any political consequences. Will the Secretary of State also tell the House that the Government will demand a clear statement that the IRA army council will be totally dismantled?

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

As the hon. Gentleman knows, there is an ongoing investigation into the crime he mentions. However, I can say this: I was, of course, aware of John Grieve's statement of the beginning of this week, and I raised it yesterday with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who told me that there is no information available to the Gardai suggesting that the attack was authorised by, or carried out on behalf of, any paramilitary grouping. I can, however, reassure the hon. Gentleman that nobody is above the law, and I am absolutely prepared to give him this commitment: this Government and the Irish Government believe that whoever did this needs to be investigated and charged in full accordance with the law, and brought to book.

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Photo of Adrian Bailey Adrian Bailey PPS (Rt Hon Bob Ainsworth, Minister of State), Ministry of Defence

The UDA statement of the weekend is obviously welcome, but it is relevant in the context not only of paramilitary violence but of the level of overall criminality in the Province. What is my right hon. Friend's assessment of the potential impact of that statement on criminality in Northern Ireland?

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

I refer my hon. Friend to the 17th report of the IMC, which looked at such issues. It was extremely important that the UDA statement called on all its members not to be involved in crime and to withdraw immediately from criminality. Let us be clear that such organisations have been front organisations for intolerable levels of crime, racketeering, prostitution and drug selling, which have brought destruction to entire communities and ruined the lives of young people. We have seen too many young people lose their lives as a consequence of the activities of such groups. I welcome the UDA statement—I take it at face value—but, in the end, it is essential that the House recognise that actions and not words will be what count. We want the UDA to ensure that its commitment is translated into action on the streets.

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Photo of Jeffrey M. Donaldson Jeffrey M. Donaldson Shadow Spokesperson (Home Affairs), Shadow DUP Spokesperson (Defence)

Will the Secretary of State assure the House that the Police Service of Northern Ireland will receive the resources it needs to deal with the dissident republican threat? In addition to evidence gathering, we need a proactive approach to prevent such attacks in the future, which requires more police officers on the streets and more resources for the PSNI—not a cut in the policing budget, as is envisaged.

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Photo of Shaun Woodward Shaun Woodward The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

I acknowledge and welcome the important work that the right hon. Gentleman does with the PSNI. The PSNI budget for the next three years is a fair settlement, and it represents an increase. Let us also look at the numbers on the ground: in Northern Ireland there is one police officer for 220 of the population. We know why that was and is necessary, but I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman would agree that many other Members would love their constituency to have the high number of officers that the Chief Constable in Northern Ireland enjoys. The Chief Constable needs them, but it is right that we continue to ask him to justify why we should spend so much money on the PSNI. It is money well spent, but we must ensure that there is value for money.

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