Serious Crime Bill [Lords] [Ways and Means]

Points of Order – in the House of Commons at 4:35 pm on 22 October 2007.

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Photo of Vernon Coaker Vernon Coaker Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Home Office) (Crime Reduction) 4:35, 22 October 2007

I beg to move,

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Serious Crime Bill [ Lords], it is expedient to authorise the recovery of costs in relation to authorised monitors.

The resolution is necessary because if the House chooses to accept the amendments tabled in the name of the Home Secretary, the Bill will include provision for recovering the costs of authorised monitors from those organisations that have been involved in serious crime. The resolution is a financial provision that is minimal in terms of the amounts of money involved as a whole. We anticipate roughly 30 orders to be made each year. The vast majority of such orders will be against individuals, with only a small number anticipated each year for use against organisations. Of that small number, we do not think that the inclusion of an authorised monitor will be appropriate in many cases. The overall number of such orders will therefore be minimal, but they could be useful where used.

Monitors take forward the Government's commitment to approaching the regulation of business in an intelligent, risk-based fashion. It is not useful or an encouragement to economic growth to engage in blanket regulation of the business sector, where that is avoidable. However, where organisations are involved in serious crime—for example, where they are being used as tools for money laundering or fraud—we must act to intervene in a targeted and specific manner. That is why the Bill provides that serious crime prevention orders can be used against organisations. That will give law enforcement a flexible means of preventing continued involvement in serious crime by the organisation.

Any regulation comes with a cost to it, which is precisely why we want to avoid spreading the burden of that regulation too widely. Monitors will be able to provide a useful service, in ensuring that the other terms of an order are being complied with. For example, an expert in corporate governance will be able to—

Photo of Michael Lord Michael Lord Deputy Speaker (Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means)

Order. I am reluctant to interrupt the Minister, but we are actually on the ways and means resolution. Is that what the Minister is speaking to?

Photo of Vernon Coaker Vernon Coaker Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Home Office) (Crime Reduction)

It is, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am trying to outline why the costs that are implicit in the Bill are relevant and appropriate.

Any regulation comes with a cost to it, which is precisely why we want to avoid spreading the burden of that regulation too widely. Monitors will be able to provide a useful service to ensure that the other terms of an order are being complied with. For example, an expert in corporate governance will be able to make an assessment of whether a requirement to put in place appropriate systems in a company to ensure that it is not used for serious criminal purposes has been complied with. That is expertise that law enforcement might well not have.

As well as such terms of an order being used rarely, as I have said, the costs to the organisation will be reasonable and proportionate. We have also included certain safeguards, to ensure that the costs are proportionate to any organisations that might be made subject to a serious crime prevention order. Such a term of an order will require only those organisations that have been proved to be involved in serious crime to pay an additional reasonable and proportionate cost, in order that we can ensure that they are not engaged in serious crime. That is surely preferable and more proportionate in achieving the desired end, in that it steers a course between letting the criminal behaviour continue and seeking to end the activities of that organisation altogether. As a result, I am confident that the imposition of costs is appropriate.

Photo of James Brokenshire James Brokenshire Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)

This proposal, relating to the establishment of new monitors under serious crime prevention orders contemplated in the Bill, is a late addition. I note what the Minister has said about the necessity for the monitors, but that is a matter for our debate on the substantive elements of the Bill and on the way in which the Government have tabled the amendments to it. It is surprising that the Government are tabling such amendments at this late stage, especially as the Bill has already been scrutinised in the other place. It raises concerns about the extent to which the provisions have been examined, but we will debate that in greater detail outside the Ways and Means resolution. We shall not oppose the resolution, but that should not be taken as our acceptance of, or acquiescence in, the general arguments on the creation of monitors arising from serious crime prevention orders.

Question agreed to.