Islamist Terrorism

Oral Answers to Questions — Home Department – in the House of Commons at 2:30 pm on 15 May 2006.

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Photo of Michael Gove Michael Gove Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government) (Housing and Planning) 2:30, 15 May 2006

What steps he is taking to tackle Islamist terrorism; and if he will make a statement.

Photo of John Reid John Reid Home Secretary, The Secretary of State for the Home Department

While effective security measures, intelligence and policing are necessary, ultimately international terrorism will be best countered by democratic values, discussion, persuasion and social solidarity. The key is to engage in genuine and sensitive dialogue with the Muslim communities and not to shy away from difficult issues. That process has already begun. I am aware that the hon. Gentleman has a longstanding interest in the matter, and I would be happy to discuss the issues with him personally should he so wish.

Photo of Michael Gove Michael Gove Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government) (Housing and Planning)

I thank the Secretary of State for his robust and balanced response and for his invitation, which I look forward to taking up. Last Thursday, my hon. Friend Mr. Wallace asked him whether the suicide bomber, Mohammad Siddique Khan, had been under sustained surveillance before 7 July. The Secretary of State replied that at the time, his understanding was that there was not a sustained programme of surveillance. This weekend, The Sunday Times reported that MI5 had extensive transcripts of Mohammad Siddique Khan planning jihadist activities. It appears that the Secretary of State may have been misled by the security services. Can we have a guarantee that, in the absence of a full independent inquiry, every transcript and detail of the surveillance of all the suspects is passed to the Intelligence and Security Committee of this House?

Photo of John Reid John Reid Home Secretary, The Secretary of State for the Home Department

May I, through the hon. Gentleman's question, correct some of the misleading statements and misrepresentations in the weekend press? First, when I engaged with Mr. Wallace after the discussion in the Chamber, it was reported that I said that the hon. Member for Lancaster and Wyre was right and that I was wrong. In fact, I said the opposite, and there were at least five witnesses to the conversation. I said that I had been right in the Chamber when I said that there was no sustained surveillance of the two gentlemen in question, Khan and Tanweer, that they had been peripheral to another investigation, that the decision had been made because they were peripheral, and that it would be a wrong judgment to use resources and assets to pursue them rather than the main characters in the main conspiracy that was being pursued. That is the first point, and I stand by that.

My second point is that the Security Service gave the Intelligence and Security Committee full co-operation in its investigation of 7 July. Indeed, since the weekend, the Security Service has reviewed the evidence that it gave to the ISC in the light of recent press allegations. It remains confident that nothing that the service knew has been withheld from the Committee. I do not intend to go into specific details, for obvious reasons, but I am glad that Michael Gove has given me the opportunity to set the record right and to correct the misleading impressions that formed the basis not only of the right hon. Gentleman's comments but of the front page story, which was in several areas very misleading.

Photo of Shahid Malik Shahid Malik PPS (Jim Knight, Minister of State), Department for Education and Skills

I commend the Government for their overall approach to dealing with terrorism. They are taking a twin-pronged approach, and the first prong involves robust anti-terror legislation, of which I have been a strong and vocal supporter. Mohammad Siddique Khan was one of my constituents. The other prong involves dealing with causal factors. Over the weekend, research reports were published by the universities of Oxford, Warwick, Birmingham and Derby showing that there was disproportionate unemployment, underachievement and overcrowding in Muslim communities. Can the Home Secretary reassure me that the Government are not going to take their eye off the second prong of their approach to dealing with terrorism?

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i believe that the government need to spend all it can to eliminate the threat of terrorists, but however some newspapers are giving aid to terrorists by reporting on what the government is doing and where. If you want rid of the terrorists then we need to give the sack to the MPs that are taking our tax money to renovate their 2nd or 3rd house, thus we have more money to increase security at airports to stop them coming through,...

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Photo of John Reid John Reid Home Secretary, The Secretary of State for the Home Department

I can absolutely guarantee that to my hon. Friend, and I commend him for the work that he has done in this area. I want to restate the view that I put forward at the beginning of this question, which is one that I have carried over from my other positions in the Government: we will not defeat terrorism by security forces, intelligence services and the armoury of weaponry that comprise the conventional forms of defence alone. They are a necessary but insufficient condition. Unless we address the underlying socio-economic problems, both domestically and internationally, we will not be successful. I therefore commit the Government to continuing in that direction. We have made a good start, but I believe that we have a long, long way to go. I look forward to working with my hon. Friend on this matter.