– in the House of Commons at 6:47 pm on 5 April 2005.
Votes in this debate
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to
That the following proceedings shall apply to the Mental Capacity Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Order of 11th October 2004, as varied by the Orders of 12th October 2004 and 14th December 2004:
Consideration of Lords Amendments
1. Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall be completed at this day's sitting and shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.
Subsequent stages
2. Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any further question being put.
3. The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.—[James Purnell.]
The House divided: Ayes 277, Noes 97.
Division number 150
Mental Capacity Bill (Programme) (No. 4)
Michael Martin
Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Speaker of the House of Commons, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission
That is correct, unless we dispose of other amendments in the hour at our disposal and are thus able to get to your Amendment.
Peter Luff
Opposition Whip (Commons)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I seek clarification on this matter. There will be a Division on the Amendment tabled by my right hon. Friend Mr. Duncan Smith, and I believe that there may be a subsequent vote on the lead amendment in the group. However, will the House have an opportunity to express its opinion on the remaining amendments in the group and on the amendments in the other two groups? If not, will the votes on the remaining amendments in the first group and on the amendments in the other two groups be taken separately?
Michael Martin
Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Speaker of the House of Commons, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission
That would be the scenario, if we take the full hour on the first group. It is then a case of the knife coming down and everything else falling.
Gerald Kaufman
Chair, Culture, Media and Sport Committee
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will recall that when the Bill was last debated in the House, letters exchanged between the Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs and the Archbishop of Cardiff were circulated to hon. Members. Has it been indicated to you whether further correspondence has taken place, and whether the Archbishop of Cardiff has made a statement following the proceedings in the other place?
Michael Martin
Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Speaker of the House of Commons, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission
That is information that the right hon. Gentleman can draw out in the course of the debate.
Eric Forth
Conservative, Bromley and Chislehurst
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. For guidance, can you clarify that what you are saying to us essentially is that the House now has a choice between debating these important issues or voting on them? The Government's timetable has forced that on us, and here in the House of Commons we can have neither a proper debate nor the votes that we need to tease out these important issues. Is that the position?
Michael Martin
Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Speaker of the House of Commons, Chair, Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission
The right hon. Gentleman is using a point of order to express an opinion, which he is entitled to do from time to time, but I will not be drawn into whether I agree with that opinion or not.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
The Speaker is an MP who has been elected to act as Chairman during debates in the House of Commons. He or she is responsible for ensuring that the rules laid down by the House for the carrying out of its business are observed. It is the Speaker who calls MPs to speak, and maintains order in the House. He or she acts as the House's representative in its relations with outside bodies and the other elements of Parliament such as the Lords and the Monarch. The Speaker is also responsible for protecting the interests of minorities in the House. He or she must ensure that the holders of an opinion, however unpopular, are allowed to put across their view without undue obstruction. It is also the Speaker who reprimands, on behalf of the House, an MP brought to the Bar of the House. In the case of disobedience the Speaker can 'name' an MP which results in their suspension from the House for a period. The Speaker must be impartial in all matters. He or she is elected by MPs in the House of Commons but then ceases to be involved in party politics. All sides in the House rely on the Speaker's disinterest. Even after retirement a former Speaker will not take part in political issues. Taking on the office means losing close contact with old colleagues and keeping apart from all groups and interests, even avoiding using the House of Commons dining rooms or bars. The Speaker continues as a Member of Parliament dealing with constituent's letters and problems. By tradition other candidates from the major parties do not contest the Speaker's seat at a General Election. The Speakership dates back to 1377 when Sir Thomas Hungerford was appointed to the role. The title Speaker comes from the fact that the Speaker was the official spokesman of the House of Commons to the Monarch. In the early years of the office, several Speakers suffered violent deaths when they presented unwelcome news to the King. Further information can be obtained from factsheet M2 on the UK Parliament website.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
Secretary of State was originally the title given to the two officials who conducted the Royal Correspondence under Elizabeth I. Now it is the title held by some of the more important Government Ministers, for example the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.
The House of Lords. When used in the House of Lords, this phrase refers to the House of Commons.
The House of Commons is one of the houses of parliament. Here, elected MPs (elected by the "commons", i.e. the people) debate. In modern times, nearly all power resides in this house. In the commons are 650 MPs, as well as a speaker and three deputy speakers.
Iain Duncan Smith
Conservative, Chingford and Woodford Green
Jim Dobbin
Labour/Co-operative, Heywood and Middleton