Orders of the Day — Inquiries Bill [Lords]

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 3:56 pm on 15 March 2005.

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Photo of Joan Humble Joan Humble Labour, Blackpool North and Fleetwood 3:56, 15 March 2005

The hon. Gentleman has taken the words out of my mouth, as I was going to urge that on the Under-Secretary. In any inquiry that is set up, it is vital that the terms of reference are right. With an issue as complex as non-combat deaths, it is vital to have clarity. As more and more service families learn of the Deepcut and Beyond campaign, they are coming forward with a wide variety of experiences. It will therefore be difficult to decide where the cut-off point should be, but there must be a cut-off point, as no inquiry can be open-ended. It is vital, however, that those with a genuine cause should not be excluded because the terms of the inquiry are too narrowly defined—because it might be in the best interests of the Department concerned so to define them. We must make sure that if a thread runs through events, that thread runs through the inquiry, too.

The Under-Secretary should be aware that the call for a public inquiry has been supported not only by the families of the young men and women who have died in non-combat circumstances but by 240 Members of Parliament. That should not just be brushed to one side—and that brings me back to my earlier point about the circumstances in which a Minister will listen and take into account such overwhelming calls from the public and Members for an inquiry.

As I said earlier, I hope that this Bill will not just be a consolidation but will enable inquiries to have more powers and to be more clearly focused. I am pleased that clause 22 gives the chairman of an inquiry power to compel people to come forward and give evidence, but I note that the exemptions in clause 23 are based on satisfying the test for civil proceedings. What happens if some sort of criminal liability is being discussed? I worry that evidence will not be given to the inquiry because people fear criminal prosecution, and that therefore much of the evidence given will not satisfy those who have called for it.

Like others, I read with interest the recommendations of the Joint Committee on Human Rights. The report referred to the issue of how inquiries deal with deaths, especially deaths falling within the ambit of article 2 of the European convention on human rights. A public inquiry is clearly not a court of law, but we must ensure that we get right not just the terms of reference but the powers of the inquiry; otherwise, we shall not secure the justice that so many of us want.

Clause 2 is entitled "No determination of liability". While many members of the public believe that an inquiry should determine who is to blame for what has occurred, the explanatory notes to the Bill state:

"The aim of inquiries is to help to restore public confidence in systems or services by investigating the facts and making recommendations to prevent recurrence, not to establish liability or to punish anyone."

Although many of those calling for inquiries might not want people to be punished, they certainly want some indication of liability.

On Second Reading in the House of Lords, Lord Laming said:

"if a train crashes because the driver has gone through a stop light and he is then proved to be drunk while on duty, I would expect the blame to be stated very clearly".—[Hansard, House of Lords, 9 December 2004; Vol. 667, c. 1004.]

That is patently obvious. There will be inquiries when liability should be apportioned to those who are plainly liable. If other proceedings need to be brought as a result, or indeed have already been brought, that will be an issue for the courts. However, those who are asking for justice, as the Deepcut and Beyond families are, want an inquiry that will look into exactly that sort of issue: who is liable?