Orders of the Day — Public Audit (Wales) Bill [Lords]

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 2:03 pm on 17 June 2004.

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Photo of Martyn Jones Martyn Jones Labour, Clwyd South 2:03, 17 June 2004

I agree that, on the face of it, that is not in the Bill. However, the Government's proposals go some way towards meeting the concerns expressed in the Welsh Affairs Committee as regards such situations.

The Government did not accept the Committee's view, but they amended the Bill to require the Audit Commission to take account of the work of the Auditor General for Wales and to co-operate with him—or her, as may be the case in future. Following pressure in the House of Lords, the Government tabled new clauses requiring the Audit Commission, the Auditor General for Wales and the Commission for Healthcare Audit and Inspection to share relevant information. Although we are not entirely happy with that, it is a good halfway-house solution. I hope that the Government will consider that further.

Clause 54—formerly clause 50—prevents information obtained in the course of an audit from being disclosed except in certain circumstances. Our Committee backed suggestions that it should be deleted and replaced with agreed protocols about the clearance of draft reports. The Government did not accept that because they believed the clause to be identical to section 49 of the Audit Commission Act 1998, which will continue to apply in England. As that section contains offence provisions, the Government took the view, as the Minister confirmed again today, that it would be unacceptable to have aspects of criminal law that applied in England but not in Wales.

Following pressure by the Lords, the Government issued a ministerial statement saying that section 49 was under review as part of the review of statutory bars following the passing of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. They further stated that it is likely to be amended to create a presumption in favour of disclosure rather than against it, as at present. Clause 54 now contains an order-making power to allow the Secretary of State to amend it in line with any changes made to section 49 of the 1998 Act. I understand that, as the Minister repeated today, that will happen within the year. However, I still believe, as do my Committee, that Wales is being required to hang on to England's coat tails. That is a cause for concern.

More generally, part 2, which covers local government audit, replicates the Audit Commission Act 1998 in large measure, with the Auditor General for Wales being put into the commission's shoes. The Bill has its origin in a local government Act of the 1970s, the name of which escapes me, and could do with being brought into the 21st century. However, the Government do not wish to create different rules for local government in England and in Wales—that is a reasonable proposition—especially as such bodies are accountable to their electorates, not the Welsh Assembly.

Part 2 also contains offence provisions unlike the audit arrangements for the Assembly and its related public bodies. That contrasts with the audit of NHS bodies, which are accountable to the Assembly, and part 3 greatly simplifies the audit regime to suit Welsh circumstances.

Overall, the Bill is a good measure, which will create a Wales Audit Office. That is appropriate for the devolved environment in which we now have to work in Wales.