Occupational Pensions

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 5:31 pm on 20 January 2003.

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Photo of Ian McCartney Ian McCartney Minister for pensions, Department for Work and Pensions 5:31, 20 January 2003

I like the hon. Gentleman dearly and we have spoken over many years. I assure him that next time when I speak in a debate in the House and he is present, I shall give him the first chance at my neck. There is a rash judgment if ever I heard one.

Opposition Members hint and wink about some issues relating to pensioners, giving the impression that they are prepared to consider a consensus. As a consensus and bridge-building politician, I welcome that. [Laughter.] I do not know why there is so much laughter about that, as it is absolutely true.

In the spirit of reconciling Conservative policy with consensus, perhaps the hon. Member for North-East Hertfordshire can give us an insight into the development of his party's policy on pensioners and older people. Only a matter of weeks ago, Mr. Flight, shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, boldly stated in the 29 December edition of The Sunday Telegraph that, on behalf of the shadow Cabinet, he was

"digging through current spending, and had found opportunities for cuts".

He said that those cuts could total 20 per cent. of public spending across the board of Government activity. When numerous Conservative spokespeople confirmed that over the holiday, they made no effort to exempt pensioners from the share of agony that £100 billion of cuts will cause. Why? We want some answers at the end of the debate. If Conservative Members genuinely support those policies, there will no consensus between hon. Members on pensions in the long term.

Let me give some examples of what Conservative policies would mean. The basic state pension would have to decrease by £15.49 for a single pensioner and £24.76 for a pensioner couple. The minimum income guarantee would have to be cut by £20.42 for a single pensioner and £31.16 for couples. That figure could be further reduced. The former Tory leader told the House in 1999 that there was nothing to recommend the minimum income guarantee. It is Conservative policy to eradicate it.

The winter fuel payment would be cut from £200 per pensioner household to £160 or less. The hon. Member for Havant made it clear that he believed that it was a gimmick and implied that a Conservative Government would drop it. In 2001-02, we spent £16 million on cold weather payments; the Conservative party would slash that figure by £3 million. I could go on about pensioner credit, capital allowance, attendance allowance, bereavement lump sum payments, carer's allowance, TV licences, bus fares and the health and social services budget. The Opposition propose cuts for them all.

We require an answer: would the Opposition cut cold weather payments or the home energy efficiency scheme? Would they cut pension credit, which would mean a cut of £400 a year or 20 per cent. across the board? We have invested an additional £2 billion, yet the hon. Member for North-East Hertfordshire has not told us whether the Conservative party will support the introduction of pension credit in April.

The Opposition would reduce capital allowances by £2,400 from the current £12,000 to £9,600. That would fundamentally undermine the concept of pension credit. They would cut attendance allowance by £11.25 a week. That is a disgrace and I hope that Mr. Brazier, who winds up the debate, gives an absolute assurance that the proposals that the hon. Member for Havant made before Christmas will be scrapped and put in the bin.