Gambling

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:20 pm on 5 July 2002.

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Photo of Rosemary McKenna Rosemary McKenna Labour, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth 12:20, 5 July 2002

I support the comments made by my hon. Friend Miss Begg on pyramid gifting schemes; they are scams, as Mr. Greenway pointed out, and should be outlawed. I also ally myself with the comments of John Thurso: we shall want to follow up the matter and as a fellow member of the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport I hope that we will receive a memorandum on it. We may not be able to include it in the current report, but we may be able to issue it as an addition.

I welcome the opportunity to participate in the debate and look forward to the proposed Bill, which I hope will be introduced soon.

We must realise that gambling is an industry and that the people employed in it play an important part in their local economy. Gambling is also a modern leisure pursuit. As our disposable income has increased, we have started to see gambling in a different light. Shopping is now a leisure pursuit, enjoyed by many, many people—it even forms part of the tourism industry; but just because some people, unfortunately, become shopaholics, we would not attempt to ban it—nor should we react to gambling in that way. However, there are serious concerns about addiction that we must take on board.

We need modern legislation to simplify the rules and regulations so that they can be easily understood. I was especially glad that my right hon. Friend the Minister for Sport said that modernisation would go hand in hand with protection. We cannot have one without the other and I strongly support calls for both.

My hon. Friend Mr. Howarth talked about modern betting shops. That reminded me that when I was a small child my grandfather used to visit an illegal betting shop in the back close of a rundown building near our house. It was common knowledge that the police arrested only the young men—the bookies paid the fines—while the elderly gentlemen were ushered out and went off to a friendly local house for a cup of tea until the bookie could open up again a couple of hours later. What a huge change we have seen since then. It is great that people feel that they can take part in gambling and, as has been pointed out, women are also able to participate. I welcome those changes.

I want to speak first on the role of local authorities. I disagree with the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross: local authorities have an extremely important role to play in local life, and I disagree with the claim that the Government have removed powers from local government. I was involved in local government throughout the entire former Conservative Administration and I could spend all day listing the powers that they removed from local government. I shall not bore the House by doing so, but remind hon. Members that the Government are beginning to change their attitude to local government. In certain parts of Scotland, they are considering giving local government powers of general competence—I should like to see that happening throughout the country.

It is absolutely crucial for local government—all local authorities—to bring its local knowledge to bear on local issues. I sat on a licensing board where we granted and removed liquor licences, and local knowledge was crucial. That board also gave members of the local community an opportunity to express their views. I have no qualms about saying that local councillors are crucial to such communication. Their role is absolutely right.

Sometimes the board was tempted by the people who applied for a licence. A local butcher came before us, saying that he thought it would be very appropriate to be able to buy a bottle of wine at his butcher's shop. He said, "Wouldn't it be nice if you were on your way home one evening and you thought, 'I will go into the butcher's and buy a really nice piece of fillet steak'"—Scottish fillet steak, of course—"and then I could offer you a piece of passion cake and a bottle of claret?" I do not know whether that was intended as a bribe to board members, but we reminded him that we thought that the right shop was called a supermarket. That undermined his argument about a one-stop butcher's shop.

Local democracy is crucial to the role of local government, which places a democratic overlay on the decision-making process. All aspects of gambling should be subject to local government control.

I am sure that we all share the concerns that have been expressed to me about the misery that gambling addiction can cause. Particular concerns have been raised about online gambling and the use of credit cards. I understand that it is very difficult to control such gambling, but we must try to find ways to help those who get into trouble. However, the industry must contribute more towards offering help and counselling to those who get into difficulties.

Children must be protected, and I look forward to reading what the Bill says about that, but I have no doubt that responsible parents always ensure that any gambling is done responsibly. We all gambled at the seaside—it was part of our holiday—but I accept that we need clear rules and clear statements about which machines children may use. As a former teacher, I know that children gamble on everything, from a game of marbles to football. It is harmless fun to them and they do not know that they are gambling. How that impacts on their home and whether it leads to addiction is absolutely unknown; no research is available. Some well-founded research would be very welcome to help inform any future debate on that issue. It would gain the industry a great deal of credit if it were willing to support some independent well-founded research on the issue.

On gaming machines, like every other Member of the House, I was inundated with letters from various clubs. My constituency has several social clubs and a couple of miners' welfare clubs, which do tremendous work in the local community in support of local charities. The local communities would be completely undermined if those clubs could not have gaming machines on their premises. Therefore I was delighted when the Minister said that he would respond positively to their representations and that the Government would continue to allow them to have gaming machines. We would all welcome that.

I welcome the Government's response to the review. Like other hon. Members, I do not consider myself a gambler, but I do buy lottery tickets, and like every other Member of Parliament I cannot possibly refuse to buy raffle tickets at all the local events to which we are invited. However, I was once forced to take part in a very important piece of gambling that was not seen as gambling, when I had to cut cards with the leader of the opposition in a hung council to see who would be the provost—or in English terms, the mayor—of the town for four years. I drew the king of diamonds, at which point there was silence throughout the room, until the leader of the then opposition drew the eight of clubs. As a result of that act of gambling, I had to chair a hung council for four years.