Orders of the Day — National Insurance Contributions Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 6:16 pm on 13 May 2002.

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Photo of Vernon Coaker Vernon Coaker Labour, Gedling 6:16, 13 May 2002

I am very pleased to follow Mr. Bercow and to have the chance to respond to one or two of the points that he made. I think that we are taking part in an historic debate in which we see clearly the divide between his side of the House and ours—it was made plain in his speech. It is historic as for the first time in a number of years, we have seen a clear argument put for the introduction of increased taxation to pay for improved public services.

With respect, I thought that the hon. Member for Buckingham made a strategic and tactical error when he referred to a range of occupations and professions and specified what the taxes would cost people in each of them. His mistake and that of the Conservative party is that they have not realised what Labour Members realise, which is that, far from seeing that cost in the old way in which they saw tax—money that they paid without getting anything—people are now saying that they want to invest in their public services. They have accepted the argument that was advanced at the last election for investment and reform in our public services. They now want to see that investment and they understand and realise that they will have to pay for it. The point is not what tax people pay, but what they get for it. The Government will be judged not on the amount of tax that we are asking people to pay through the increased national insurance contributions, but on whether they see the results of that increased investment that we are putting into the national health service.

The shift in the debate has been huge. I remember standing for election and arguing the case for increased taxes to pay for improved public services a number of times only to lose significantly. It is a great credit to our Government, the Treasury team and others that we have now shifted the debate away from tax cuts and on to investment and reform as the winning combination. That is a significant shift in our political culture.

We will pay for massive increases in health spending of 7.4 per cent. in real terms in the next five years. As my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary said, the amount spent will shift from £65.4 billion this year to £105.6 billion in 2007 and 2008. Those are staggering figures—huge figures—but people accept the need to pay more because they want new hospitals, shorter waits, new drugs and a modern NHS with more doctors and nurses.

It is a mistake on the part of Conservative Members to rubbish the NHS as it currently stands. To say that there has been no improvement in the NHS over the past few years completely belies people's experience. It is not true to say that it is a complete shambles and that nobody receives decent service, decent treatment or a decent operation—every single day, tens of thousands of people go to hospital or to their doctor and receive treatment that they are proud to be able to receive and about which they write letters of thanks to ward staff and doctors.

We need more investment, and significant problems remain to be addressed, but to say that every single hospital, every single surgery and every single operation goes wrong and is a disaster is not true, and it is not the experience of ordinary people.