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Requirement for Member-Nominated Trustees

Clause 16 – in the House of Commons at 9:45 pm on 4th July 1995.

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Amendment proposed: No. 1, in page 9, line 39, at end insert— '6(A) The arrangements must provide that when a scheme has more than 850 members, and pensioner members comprise a majority, one additional trustee shall be nominated, who shall be a pensioner member of that scheme.'.—[Mr. Ingram.]

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 252, Noes 282.

Division No. 194][10.00 pm
AYES
Abbott, Ms DianeDavies, Ron (Caerphilly)
Adams, Mrs IreneDavis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l)
Ainger, NickDenham, John
Armstrong, HilaryDewar, Donald
Ashdown, Rt Hon PaddyDixon, Don
Ashton, JoeDobson, Frank
Banks, Tony (Newham NW)Donohoe, Brian H
Barnes, HarryDowd, Jim
Barron, KevinDunnachie, Jimmy
Battle, JohnDunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Bayley, HughEagle, Ms Angela
Beckett, Rt Hon MargaretEastham, Ken
Beggs, RoyEtherington, Bill
Bell, StuartEvans, John (St Helens N)
Benn, Rt Hon TonyEwing, Mrs Margaret
Bennett, Andrew FFatchett, Derek
Bermingham, GeraldFaulds, Andrew
Berry, RogerField, Frank (Birkenhead)
Betts, CliveFlynn, Paul
Blunkett, DavidForsythe, Clifford (S Antrim)
Boateng, PaulFoster, Rt Hon Derek
Bowden, Sir AndrewFoster, Don (Bath)
Bray, Dr JeremyFoulkes, George
Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E)Fraser, John
Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)Fyfe, Maria
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)Galloway, George
Burden, RichardGarrett, John
Byers, StephenGerrard, Neil
Caborn, RichardGodman, Dr Norman A
Callaghan, JirnGodsiff, Roger
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)Golding, Mrs Llin
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)Gordon, Mildred
Campbell-Savours, D NGraham, Thomas
Cann, JamieGrant, Bemie (Tottenham)
Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery)Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Chidgey, DavidGrocott, Bruce
Chisholm, MalcolmGunnell, John
Church, JudithHain, Peter
Clapham, MichaelHall, Mike
Clark, Dr David (South Shields)Harman, Ms Harriet
Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)Harvey, Nick
Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy
Clelland, DavidHenderson, Doug
Clwyd, Mrs AnnHill, Keith (Streatham)
Coffey, AnnHinchliffe, David
Cohen, HarryHodge, Margaret
Connarty, MichaelHoey, Kate
Corbett, RobinHogg, Norman (Cumbernauld)
Corbyn, JeremyHome Robertson, John
Corston, JeanHood, Jimmy
Cousins, JimHoon, Geoffrey
Cunliffe, LawrenceHowarth, George (Knowsley North)
Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)
Cunningham, RoseannaHoyle, Doug
Dalyell, TarnHughes, Kevin (DoncasterN)
Darling, AlistairHughes, Robert (Aberdeen N)
Davidson, IanHughes, Roy (Newport E)
Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)Hughes, Simon (Southwark)
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)Hutton, John
Illsley, EricPickthall, Colin
Ingram, AdamPike, Peter L
Jackson, Glenda (H'stead)Pope, Greg
Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H)Powell, Ray (Ogmore)
Jamieson, DavidPrentice, Bridget (Lew'm E)
Janner, GrevillePrentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Johnston, Sir RussellPrescott, Rt Hon John
Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)Primarolo, Dawn
Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Môn)Purchase, Ken
Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)Quin, Ms Joyce
Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O)Radice, Giles
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW)Randall, Stuart
Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)Raynsford, Nick
Jowell, TessaReid, Dr John
Keen, AlanRendel, David
Kennedy, Jane (L'pool Br'dg'n)Robertson, George (Hamilton)
Khabra, Piara SRobinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW)
Kilfovle, PeterRoche, Mrs Barbara
Kirkwood, ArchyRogers, Allan
Lestor, Joan (Eccles)Rooker, Jeff
Lewis, TerryRooney, Terry
Liddell, Mrs HelenRoss, Ernie (Dundee W)
Litherland, RobertRoss, William (E Londonderry)
Livingstone, KenRuddock, Joan
Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)Salmond, Alex
Llwyd, ElfynSedgemore, Brlan
Lynne, Ms LizSheerman, Barry
McAllion, JohnSheldon, Rt Hon Robert
McAvoy, ThomasShort, Clare
Macdonald, CalumSimpson, Alan
McFall, JohnSkinner, Dennis
McKelvey, WilliamSmith, Andrew (Oxford E)
Mackinlay, AndrewSmith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
McLeish, HenrySmyth, The Reverend Martin
Maclennan, RobertSpearing, Nigel
McMaster, GordonSpellar, John
McNamara, KevinSquire, Rachel (Dunfermline W)
MacShane, DenisSteel, Rt Hon Sir David
McWilliam, JohnSteinberg, Gerry
Madden, MaxStevenson, George
Mandelson, PeterStraw, Jack
Marek, Dr JohnSutcliffe, Gerry
Marshall, David (Shettleston)Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S)Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Martin, Michael J (Springburn)Timms, Stephen
Martlew, EricTipping, Paddy
Maxton, JohnTouhig, Don
Meacher, MichaelTurner, Dennis
Meale, AlanTyler, Paul
Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley)Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)Wallace, James
Milburn, AlanWalley, Joan
Miller, AndrewWardell, Gareth (Gower)
Morgan, RhodriWatson, Mike
Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wy'nshawe)Welsh, Andrew
Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley)Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W)
Mowlam, MarjorieWilliams, Alan W (Carmarthen)
Mudie, GeorgeWilson, Brian
Mullin, ChrisWinnick, David
Murphy, PaulWise, Audrey
Oakes, Rt Hon GordonWorthington, Tony
O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire)Wray, Jimmy
O'Brien, William (Normanton)Wright, Dr Tony
Olner, BillYoung, David (Bolton SE)
O'Neill, Martin
Orme, Rt Hon StanleyTellers for the Ayes:
Parry, RobertMr. John Cummings and Mr. Robert Ainsworth.
Pearson, Ian
NOES
Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey)Ancram, Michael
Aitken, Rt Hon JonathanArbuthnot, James
Alexander, RichardArnold, Jacques (Gravesham)
Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby)Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv)
Allason, Rupert (Torbay)Ashby, David
Amess, DavidAtkins, Rt Hon Robert
Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E)Forman, Nigel
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)Forsyth, Rt Hon Michael (Stirling)
Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset)Forth, Eric
Baldry, TonyFowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman
Banks, Matthew (Southport)Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring)
Bates, MichaelFox, Sir Marcus (Shipley)
Batiste, SpencerFreeman, Rt Hon Roger
Bellingham, HenryFrench, Douglas
Bendall, VivianGale, Roger
Beresford, Sir PaulGallie, Phil
Biffen, Rt Hon JohnGardiner, Sir George
Bonsor, Sir NicholasGarel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan
Booth, HartleyGarnier, Edward
Bottomley, Peter (Eltham)Gillan, Cheryl
Bottomley, Rt Hon VirginiaGoodson-Wickes, Dr Charles
Bowis, JohnGorman, Mrs Teresa
Boyson, Rt Hon Sir RhodesGorst, Sir John
Brandreth, GylesGrant, Sir A (SW Cambs)
Brazier, JulianGreenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Bright, Sir GrahamGreenway, John (Ryedale)
Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes)Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N)
Browning, Mrs AngelaHague, William
Bruce, Ian (Dorset)Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)
Budgen, NicholasHampson, Dr Keith
Burns, SimonHanley, Rt Hon Jeremy
Burt, AlistairHannam, Sir John
Butcher, JohnHargreaves, Andrew
Butler, PeterHaselhurst, Sir Alan
Butterfill, JohnHawkins, Nick
Carlisle, John (Luton North)Hawksley, Warren
Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln)Hayes, Jerry
Carrington, MatthewHeald, Oliver
Carttiss, MichaelHeathcoat-Amory, David
Cash, WilliamHendry, Charles
Channon, Rt Hon PaulHicks, Robert
Churchill, MrHiggins, Rt Hon Sir Terence
Clappison, JamesHogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham)
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)Horam, John
Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif)Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter
Clifton-Brown, GeoffreyHowarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A)
Coe, SebastianHowell, Sir Ralph (N Norfolk)
Colvin, MichaelHughes, Robert G (Harrow W)
Conway, DerekHunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st)Hunter, Andrew
Cope, Rt Hon Sir JohnHurd, Rt Hon Douglas
Cormack, Sir PatrickJack, Michael
Couchman, JamesJackson, Robert (Wantage)
Cran, JamesJenkin, Bernard
Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire)Jessel, Toby
Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon)Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey
Davies, Quentin (Stamford)Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)
Davis, David (Boothferry)Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr)
Day, StephenKellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine
Deva, Nirj JosephKing, Rt Hon Tom
Devlin, TimKirkhope, Timothy
Dicks, TerryKnapman, Roger
Dorrell, Rt Hon StephenKnight, Mrs Angela (Erewash)
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord JamesKnight, Greg (Derby N)
Dover, DenKnight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'stn)
Duncan, AlanKnox, Sir David
Duncan-Smith, IainKynoch, George (Kincardine)
Dunn, BobLait, Mrs Jacqui
Durant, Sir AnthonyLamont, Rt Hon Norman
Dykes, HughLang, Rt Hon Ian
Eggar, Rt Hon TimLawrence, Sir Ivan
Elletson, HaroldLegg, Barry
Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield)Leigh, Edward
Evans, Jonathan (Brecon)Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark
Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley)Lidington, David
Evans, Roger (Monmouth)Lightbown, David
Evennett, DavidLilley, Rt Hon Peter
Faber, DavidLloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham)
Fabricant, MichaelLord, Michael
Fenner, Dame PeggyLuff, Peter
Held, Barry (Isle of Wight)Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
Fishburn, DudleyMacGregor, Rt Hon John
MacKay, AndrewShepherd, Colin (Hereford)
Maclean, Rt Hon DavidShepherd, Richard
McLoughlin, PatrickShersby, Sir Michael
McNair-Wilson, Sir PatrickSims, Roger
Madel, Sir DavidSmith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
Maitland, Lady OlgaSoames, Nicholas
Malone, GeraldSpencer, Sir Derek
Mans, KeithSpicer, Sir James (W Dorset)
Marland, PaulSpicer, Michael (S Worcs)
Marlow, TonySpink, Dr Robert
Marshall, John (Hendon S)Spring, Richard
Martin, David (Portsmouth S)Sproat, Iain
Mates, MichaelSquire, Robin (Hornchurch)
Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir PatrickStephen, Michael
Merchant, PiersStewart, Alan
Mills, IainStreeter, Gary
Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)Sumberg, David
Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants)Sweeney, Walter
Moate, Sir RogerSykes, John
Monro, Sir HectorTapsell, Sir Peter
Montgomery, Sir FergusTaylor, Ian (Esher)
Moss, MalcolmTaylor, John M (Solihull)
Nelson, AnthonyTaylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E)
Neubert, Sir MichaelTemple-Morris, Peter
Newton, Rt Hon TonyThomason, Roy
Nicholson, David (Taunton)Thompson, Sir Donald (Ce'r V)
Nicholson, Emma (Devon West)Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Norris, SteveThornton, Sir Malcolm
Onslow, Rt Hon Sir CranleyThurnham, Peter
Oppenheim, PhillipTownend, John (Bridlington)
Ottaway, RichardTownsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th)
Page, RichardTracey, Richard
Paice, JamesTredinnick, David
Patnick, Sir IrvineTrend, Michael
Patten, Rt Hon JohnTrotter, Neville
Pattie, Rt Hon Sir GeoffreyTwinn, Dr Ian
Pawsey, JamesVaughan, Sir Gerard
Peacock, Mrs ElizabethViggers, Peter
Pickles, EricWaldegrave, Rt Hon William
Porter, Barry (Wirral S)Walker, Bill (N Tayside)
Porter, David (Waveney)Waller, Gary
Portilto, Rt Hon MichaelWardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Powell, William (Corby)Waterson, Nigel
Rathbone, TimWatts, John
Redwood, Rt Hon JohnWells, Bowen
Renton, Rt Hon TimWheeler, Rt Hon Sir John
Richards, RodWhitney, Ray
Riddick, GrahamWhittingdale, John
Rifkind, Rt Hon MalcolmWiddecombe, Ann
Robathan, AndrewWiggin, Sir Jerry
Roberts, Rt Hon Sir WynWilkinson, John
Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S)Willetts, David
Robinson, Mark (Somerton)Wilshire, David
Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne)Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent)Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld)
Rumbold, Fit Hon Dame AngelaYeo, Tim
Sackville, TomYoung, Rt Hon Sir George
Sainsbury, Rt Hon Sir Timothy
Shaw, David (Dover)Tellers for the Noes:
Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)Mr. Sydney Chapman and Mr. Timothy Wood.
Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian

Question accordingly negatived.

It being after The o' clock, further cosideration of the bill stood adjoured.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No.14 (Exempted business).That, at this day's sitting, the Pensions Bill [Lords] may be proceeded with, though opposed, until any hour.—[Mr. Kirkhope.]

Question agreed to.

Photo of Mr Brian Wilson Mr Brian Wilson , Cunninghame North

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sure that you are aware, as is the House, of the rather sorry background to the case of BMARC and arms to Iran. In particular, I refer to the fact that, in both written and oral parliamentary statements during that time, Ministers, as they have acknowledged, misled the House—inadvertently, no doubt—because of the non-availability of papers that were held by Government Departments.

We are also aware that those papers have now surfaced, and there is no longer any doubt about their importance. We understand that some examination, several years belatedly, is being made of them. I am sure that you would agree, Madam Deputy Speaker, that, if information were to come out of those papers that had further implications for oral and written statements made to the House by Ministers, the House must be the first to know the contents of those papers.

In particular, if any information which comes out of the BMARC papers has any implications for the position of the Chief Secretary to the Treasury or any other Minister, the House must be the first to know about it. I ask you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to safeguard the House's interests in that respect.

Photo of Miss Janet Fookes Miss Janet Fookes , Plymouth Drake

The hon. Gentleman and the House will understand that that is not a matter over which the Chair has any jurisdiction. The hon. Gentleman must find other ways of pursuing the issue.