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Employment of Long-Term Unemployed: Deductions by Employers

Clause 23 – in the House of Commons at 8:30 pm on 22nd March 1995.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Ms Liz Lynne Ms Liz Lynne , Rochdale 8:30 pm, 22nd March 1995

I beg to move amendment No. 41, in page 18, line 48, after 'allowance', insert ', invalid care allowance or a benefit paid by virtue of his incapacity for work'.'

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

With this, it will be convenient to discuss also the following amendments: No. 3, in page 18, line 48, leave out 'two years' and insert 'one year'.

No. 4, in page 19, line 5, leave out 'two years' and insert 'one year'.

No. 5, in page 19, line 10, after 'deductions', insert 'which may exceed the payments which he is required to make by way of secondary Class I contributions in respect of that person.'.

Photo of Ms Liz Lynne Ms Liz Lynne , Rochdale

The Bill does a great injustice to disabled people and their carers. The national insurance holiday to employers who take on someone who has been unemployed is welcome, but it does not go far enough. Obviously, I should like a full benefit transfer scheme, but that is a debate for another day. The Bill would exclude those who care for someone, those who claim invalidity care allowance, those who claim benefits that are paid on the grounds that they are incapable for work and those who suffer an illness or disability that qualifies them to claim incapacity benefit or severe disablement allowance.

The Minister may feel that he covered the amendment in Committee with the reply that he gave, but it was not adequate. He said: The basic principle is that it is a work incentive proposal and there is no obvious case for extending it to those who are incapable of work… There are other helps for disabled people to get back into work in the form of disability working allowance at a more generous rate than family credit. Housing benefit and council tax benefit contain extra premiums for disability, which again increases the amount of benefit that disabled people receive."—[Official Report, Standing Committee B, 28 February 1995; c. 640–41.] I do not think that that is good enough, although there are provisions within the social security system to help disabled people back to work. The disability working allowance is one such thing, but it is unlikely to have any impact as a work incentive and the take-up rate is only 17 per cent. It would take another 25 years for the Government to achieve their target of 50,000 claimants.

The Minister missed the point in his reply in Committee. We are not talking about an incentive for those out of work. We are talking about an incentive for an employer to take people on. Employers can save about £6 a week. I do not see why that should not apply if they take on a qualified disabled person. I hope that the Minister will reconsider this. The amendment has particular value for carers who want to return to work. I know that the Minister for Social Security and Disabled People talked about considering the position of carers who received income support but were exempt from the requirement to sign on at the unemployment exchange.

I hope that the Minister will clarify the position on carers and whether they could be included in the national insurance holiday. Could disabled people be included if they had been in receipt of incapacity benefit? If employers take on someone who is disabled could they be treated in the same way as if they had taken on someone who had been unemployed for two years? I hope that the Government will consider accepting the amendment. It would go a long way to helping disabled people and their carers.

Photo of Mr Keith Bradley Mr Keith Bradley Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson (Social Security) 9:30 pm, 22nd March 1995

I add the Labour party's voice to this group of amendments and announce that I will try to divide the House on amendment No. 3.

Amendments Nos. 3 and 4 reduce from two years to one year the qualifying period under which a new employer would get the national insurance contribution holiday. Amendment No. 5 deals with the amount of the contribution rebate that clause 23 leaves to be prescribed in regulations and provides for the rebate to be more than the employer's contribution for the person in question.

It is unfortunate that we have so little time to debate this important group of amendments, which deal with support for taking people off the long-term register and getting them back to work—one could describe it as pathways back to work.

When she moved amendment No. 41, the hon. Member for Rochdale (Ms Lynne) referred to our debate in Committee. It is important that I point out that we moved an amendment at that stage to provide that income support, incapacity benefit, severe disablement allowance or invalid care allowance should be included as part of the two-year qualifying period.

As the Minister will know, I have corresponded with the Department during and since the Committee to try to clarify exactly how ex-carers and others who have been in receipt of incapacity benefits will be treated by the Bill and whether they will have the right to be included in any scheme that takes people off the long-term register.

Carers who have been undertaking the caring role and have not been available for work should not be discriminated against in any way when that caring responsibility ends and should not be excluded for two years—those are the Government's terms—from any help for returning to work. I hope that the Minister will be able to give us further details on that matter, because there is a general wish on both sides of the House to support people in those circumstances.

I am pleased to see the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Mr. Howarth) in the Chamber. I tried to catch him before the debate started, as I did not want to do any further damage to his career by quoting him without giving him notice. His succinct and pertinent comments on Second Reading are worth quoting again, as they are relevant to amendments Nos. 3, 4 and 5. He was critical of the Government for failing to provide worthwhile incentives to employers to take on the long-term unemployed and his criticisms have a sound base. He said: The problem is that, although the Government have accepted the principle, their measures are wholly inadequate. The national insurance holiday for employers who take on those who have been unemployed for two years or more will offer employers just £6 a week. Employers have already made it clear that this is simply not enough and that it does not offer an incentive.What is more, the national insurance holiday will not be introduced until April 1996. Why should the two-year unemployed have to wait to become unemployed for three and a half years before they get this measly incentive?"—[Official Report, 10 January 1995; Vol. 252, c. 61.] We could not express the purpose behind our amendments more clearly than that.

There is a strong economic case for offering incentives to private sector employers to recruit the long-term unemployed. In the long run, that will allow the economy to grow faster while assisting the improvement of local economic activity in areas of social deprivation. The insecurity that people feel about their futures and the absence of the so-called "feel-good factor" are due to the chronic insecurity that people feel in their jobs.

The figures show for themselves why there is such debilitating uncertainty in the current climate and the current economy. Between 1993 and 1994, for example, 20 per cent. of all employees had left the job that they were in at the start of 1993. Similarly, people have a one in two chance of being out of their present job within two years. There are 1.5 million fewer jobs in the economy than in 1989, which means that 1.5 million jobs have disappeared during the recession and have not been replaced. In 1995, there are 3 million fewer full-time jobs than there were in 1979.

For two months running, the number of vacancies at jobcentres fell. Having fallen by 3,400 in January, they fell by more than 2,000 in February. If people are unlucky enough to lose their job, they have a one in three chance that their next job will be part time. Once they have shifted into part-time work, they are twice as likely to lose their job within a year as an employee in a similar full-time position. The impact of that insecure world of work which the Government have created is disastrous for families trying to plan for themselves and their children. Furthermore, nearly 11 million people—40 per cent. of the work force—have been out of work at some point in the past five years. Men are hit worst; 44 per cent. or 6.8 million men have been affected. The unemployment figure is still almost 1 million higher than it was under the post-war Labour Government.

All those figures and many more show that the current workings and deregulation of the labour market do not work. Long-term unemployment is grossly inefficient and unjust. There is a strong argument to support measures targeted at getting the long-term unemployed back to work. People who have lost their job in the past year have only a 23 per cent. chance of finding work within a month. If they are out of the labour market for a year, their chance of finding work falls to just 12 per cent.

Photo of Sir Peter Emery Sir Peter Emery , Honiton

Is the hon. Gentleman trying to argue that employers should keep people in work to stay inefficient and that people should be kept in employment to increase prices and to have inefficient industry? Is that the policy that the Labour party is putting forward? Is he saying that industry should not return to efficient organisation? Is that what the Labour party wants? If so, we want to know.

Photo of Mr Keith Bradley Mr Keith Bradley Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson (Social Security)

That intervention was quite amazing. The purpose of the amendments is to build on the Government's measures. They have recognised that they must create incentives to get the long-term unemployed off the dole queue. The right hon. Gentleman implied that he did not even support those modest measures and wants no help to be given to the long-term unemployed. He clearly does not understand the Bill before us, the clause that we are dealing with and the fact that the amendments that we are discussing would help people to return to work. He should concentrate his mind on those matters and even read the statements made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in introducing the proposals.

In his Budget speech, the Chancellor recognised that the Government must introduce those measures, and they have been included in the Jobseekers Bill, the back-to-work schemes and the back-to-work bonus. The amendments seek to reinforce, improve and extend those measures to help people who, because they have been out of work for one or two years, stand little chance of getting back into work. I should have thought that the right hon. Gentleman would have felt some responsibility, given how long his party has been in government, for trying to help the long-term unemployed back into work. That is the sole intention of the amendments.

At the same time as the Chancellor announced his measures to help the long-term unemployed, we put forward the Labour party's eight pathways back into work. Given the intervention from the right hon. Member for Honiton (Sir P. Emery), it is worth re-emphasising that clear Labour party policy to help the long-term unemployed. We strongly believe in the release of capital receipts to enable local authorities to build and launch small business expansion schemes, so that those businesses can expand and take on new workers. We shall introduce a benefit transfer programme for non-profit employers to help them to take on the unemployed in their areas. We shall propose an environmental task force, open to all young people. We shall look at tax rebates for employers who take on those who have been unemployed for two years or more. We shall look at modernising the benefits system so that we can ensure that people have pathways out of poverty through a combination of properly paid work and benefits.

We have just had an excellent debate on the minimum wage, which revealed that the Labour party is seeking proper wages for employment, topped up by benefits, rather than that people are ground down into poverty through the benefit system. We shall work to set up national child care systems to ensure that there are full opportunities for everyone to get back into employment.

We shall introduce many other measures when we are in government. At this stage, we want to ensure that the Bill provides the maximum opportunities to ensure that those who have been long-term unemployed and registered as such have the opportunity to benefit from the modest schemes that the Government have introduced. Amendments Nos. 3 and 5 are therefore designed to ensure that the Government include people who have been unemployed for between one and two years in the proposed new system. In particular, amendment No. 41 would guarantee that those people who have not been on the unemployment register but who have been unemployed through no fault of their own, because they have willingly undertaken the essential task of caring, also benefit from the Government's proposals.

As the hon. Member for Rochdale reminded us, in Committee the Government were not minded to look more sympathetically at the needs of the long-term unemployed or to consider lowering the unemployment threshold from two years to one. Since then, I hope that the Government have reflected on their position. I hope that they now appreciate that it is important that the plight of carers who, having undertaken caring responsibilities, face great difficulties when they try to get back into work, should be recognised.

More should be done to encourage the long-term unemployed back into work. I hope that the Minister will give us some encouragement by demonstrating that he has recognised the problem and by looking sympathetically at the amendments. I hope that he will accept them; otherwise we shall divide the House on amendments Nos. 41 and 3.

Photo of Mr Roger Evans Mr Roger Evans , Monmouth

I begin with amendment No. 41, which is otiose because clause 23(6)(a) gives a power to prescribe circumstances in respect of people who do not satisfy the terms of clause 23(1). They can be treated as such. The necessary empowerment to make the regulations is already included in the Bill. Therefore it is unnecessary to pass the amendment in order to achieve the object that the hon. Member for Rochdale (Ms Lynne) and, indeed, the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington (Mr. Bradley), sought to persuade me to achieve.

I regret that I am not in a position to offer any satisfaction on the two policy matters that were mentioned. First, in respect of the disabled, the hon. Member for Rochdale fairly quoted me from Standing Committee, and the Government remain of the view that disabled people receive help to return to work in other ways. Disability working allowance is available at a more generous rate than family credit. Housing benefit and council tax benefit contain premiums for disability which also increase the amount of benefits that disabled people receive. Disabled people will qualify for the extra £10 premium in family credit or disability working allowance if returning to work for 30 hours or more a week.

Photo of Ms Liz Lynne Ms Liz Lynne , Rochdale 9:45 pm, 22nd March 1995

The Minister has not understood, as I said in my speech. We are talking about giving the employer an incentive to employ disabled people, not the other way round—not giving the disabled person the incentive to get into work.

Photo of Mr Roger Evans Mr Roger Evans , Monmouth

The hon. Lady makes a fair point of analysis, but at the end of the day there is a question of money, whichever way round one tackles it. The Government's opinion is that the package announced in the uprating statement is an important, and indeed expensive, work incentive measure. The measures will cost an extra £300 million in benefit expenditure and will cut costs to business by a further £300 million when the national insurance reduction is taken into account. The Government's opinion at this stage is that we have gone a very long way. There is power in the Bill to go as far as the hon. Member for Rochdale wishes, but we do not propose to do so at the moment.

The second category, which was referred to by the hon. Member for Withington as well as the hon. Member for Rochdale, was that of ex-carers. My hon. Friend the Minister for Social Security and Disabled People has expressed sympathy. Indeed, he has written to the hon. Member for Withington, explaining that that category would not be entitled to the national insurance holiday, but expressing sympathy for the opinion that those who had received income support should be able to qualify and offering to consider the matter. I am not in a position to take the matter any further this evening, but that is the position as it stands.

The three amendments that the Labour party has tabled are extremely interesting and important. The purpose of amendments Nos. 3 and 4 is to make labour more attractive for hiring. The idea is that national insurance contributions are expensive; the employer has to meet them; if one gives a holiday from them, that is a direct incentive to the employer. The pair of amendments seek to extend that concession to employers from two years to one. The inexorable logic of the argument is that, by making labour cheaper, employers will have an incentive to take on more employees. Conservative Members strongly concur with that viewpoint.

It is deeply ironic that the inexorable sanity and logic of that position has been denied for the rest of the evening, because the minimum wage that Labour Members have contended for would have the effect of making labour more expensive. Somehow the Opposition wish to have more people in employment by making labour cheaper by those amendments, but refuse to accept the corollary that, if one increases the cost of labour by introducing a minimum wage, it will have the opposite effect. That is cloud cuckoo land of a most extraordinary nature, and shows the fundamental failing to understand a free market economy that is endemic on the Opposition Benches.

The difficulty with amendments Nos. 3 and 4, which are well intended, well meant and no doubt efficacious in the sense that they provide a positive incentive to increase the amount of people employed by reducing the cost of labour, is that, unhappily, they cost the taxpayer a considerable sum of money. The effect of amendment No. 3 would be to increase the category of employees who would potentially benefit from about 120,000 to 500,000 to 600,000. The precise effects are not necessarily easy to predict, but it is obvious that an estimated cost to the taxpayer of about £45 million would increase to about £170 million to £200 million in the terms of those two amendments. I regret to say that the Government believe that a considerable amount of money has been spent on the issue and it is not appropriate now to increase the burden on the taxpayer. In Committee, the hon. Member for Makerfield (Mr. McCartney) proposed amendments to like effect and suggested that they did not represent a spending commitment.

The hon. Gentleman suggested that, because the cost would be met out of the consolidated fund—general taxation—it was a mere book-keeping exercise. Increasing the burden on general taxation would, as a consequence, increase the amount needed to be raised from taxpayers to cover the additional cost. In no sense was it a book-keeping exercise. The hon. Gentleman's logic in Committee was incapable of being followed. The reality is that, yet again, the Labour party is arguing for a substantial public expenditure commitment.

Amendment No. 5 is in a different category. I can happily say that it is otiose in the sense that the Bill contains the power to do the same thing in any event.

Photo of Ian McCartney Ian McCartney , Makerfield

What does otiose mean?

Photo of Mr Roger Evans Mr Roger Evans , Monmouth

Otiose, for the benefit of the hon. Gentleman, means unnecessary and repetitious. The power already exists—[Interruption.] I can say to the hon. Member for Wallsend (Mr. Byers) that I shall be brief.

The Government expect to provide, in regulations, for the deduction to equate to the amount of the employer's national insurance contributions. But the Bill contains the power to make that amount more or less. It is likely that we shall make provision in regulations for employers who operate occupational pension schemes to claim an amount equal to their gross national insurance liability—the actual amount of contracted-out national insurance contributions paid, plus an amount equal to the employers' 3 per cent. contracted-out rebate. That puts all employers on an equal footing and encourages them to include employees who qualify for the national insurance contribution holiday within the pension scheme, which will be beneficial to them. If amounts in excess of the employers' contribution liability were generally to be available, that would increase the amount of money involved and increase the burden to the general taxpayer.

The national insurance contribution holiday scheme is intended to be easy for employers to understand and operate, and for the Department to administer, within a given cost. We are concerned to keep it on a broad basis and limit exceptions that would otherwise complicate a straightforward scheme. I invite the House to reject amendment No. 41 on the basis that, even if it is necessary and desirable to carry out the policy intentions urged on me, which I reject, the Bill already contains the power to take such action were the Government to be persuaded to change their mind.

Amendments Nos. 3 and 4 are extremely expensive. The Government understand the logic of the desirability of making labour cheaper to encourage more people to be taken on. I remain baffled by the fact that that logic was missing in the earlier argument this evening.

I urge the House to reject amendment No. 5 on the basis that the Bill already contains the power. I have explained the way in which we intend to pursue the regulations.

Photo of Ms Liz Lynne Ms Liz Lynne , Rochdale

I am grateful to the Under-Secretary of State for Social Security, but I am not grateful for the fact that he has not accepted amendment No. 41, especially when the Minister for Social Security and Disabled People said that he would consider it. I was hoping that we would receive a commitment tonight from the Under-Secretary of State further to the statement from the Minister for Social Security and Disabled People. I am also worried that disabled people, along with carers, will not be encouraged to get work. If we had a national insurance holiday for carers as well, it would help them to get back into work.

The Minister also said that the scheme would cost a great deal of money. He seems to forget that it is cost-effective to get people back to work. It might cost money for the national insurance holiday to be extended to disabled people and carers, but we should think of the savings in benefit. If the people who are now receiving benefit got back into work, that would represent a great saving for the Treasury rather than a cost. It is a great shame that the Minister is not prepared to accept amendment No. 41 and I shall certainly wish to put it to the vote.

Photo of Mr Keith Bradley Mr Keith Bradley Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson (Social Security)

I was glad to hear the Minister's views on the amendments, although I am clearly disappointed by what he said. It is correct that I have been in correspondence with the Minister for Social Security and Disabled People, as I thought I mentioned in my opening remarks on the amendment. I will continue with that correspondence in an effort to assist carers as much as possible within the benefit system and to try to ensure that they benefit from the Government's schemes.

The Minister was disingenuous in describing our proposals. We recognise—the shadow Chancellor stated it quite clearly at the time of the Budget—that extra expenditure will be required in the short term in order to extend the pathways back to work proposals. That will prove economically efficient in the long term.

Photo of Mr Roger Evans Mr Roger Evans , Monmouth

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. I understand the force of his argument, but it may assist the House in forming a view about it if he were to estimate the short-term cost of the back-to-work package that he has described.

Photo of Mr Keith Bradley Mr Keith Bradley Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson (Social Security)

I urge the Minister to read the statements made by the shadow Chancellor at the time of the Budget when he presented the whole package. The Minister is welcome to come back to me if he thinks that the package will not prove economically efficient and at least cost neutral in the long term. It must be a better use of human resources to remove people from the unemployment register so that they stop claiming benefit and start paying taxes.

Photo of Mr Keith Bradley Mr Keith Bradley Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson (Social Security)

It is rather unfortunate that the hon. Lady has just wandered into the Chamber.

Photo of Mrs Elaine Kellett Mrs Elaine Kellett , Lancaster

I have been here on and off.

Photo of Mr Keith Bradley Mr Keith Bradley Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson (Social Security)

That is certainly not true. I have been in the Chamber for six and a half hours and it is the first time that I have seen the hon. Lady here. She must have wandered in and out in a dream, because she has certainly not had anything to do with the debate.

I will quote from the Chancellor's last Budget speech in support of my views. He said: We must combine greater prosperity for the majority with measures to prevent the emergence of a deprived underclass, excluded from the opportunity to work and dependent on welfare".—[Official Report, 29 November 1994; Vol. 250, c. 1079.] Through our amendments, we are saying that the measures that the Chancellor has taken and those in the Jobseekers Bill do not go far enough. They scratch only the surface in tackling the problems of the long-term unemployed in this country.

If the legislation's intention was to create jobs, its thrust would be primarily towards measures to help people back to work. However, the Government's key measures cut the benefits that are available to unemployed people and undermine the basic contributory principles. They reduce from 12 months to six months the amount of benefit that people will receive from their payments through the national insurance scheme. The Bill's whole emphasis is wrong; we believe that the Government should look at further enhanced measures to help the unemployed back into the work force. That is why, after reflection in Committee, the amendments were tabled to allow the Minister to reconsider the opportunity to extend the proposals in the way that the amendments are framed. It is to be regretted that he has not taken that opportunity and in that light we shall divide the House.

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 259, Noes 278.

Division No. 111][9.59
Abbott, Ms DianeAshton, Joe
Adams, Mrs IreneAustin-Walker, John
Ainger, NickBanks, Tony (Newham NW)
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)Barnes, Harry
Allen, GrahamBarron, Kevin
Alton, DavidBattle, John
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)Bayley, Hugh
Armstrong, HilaryBeckett, Rt Hon Margaret
Beith, Rt Hon A JGordon, Mildred
Bell, StuartGraham, Thomas
Benn, Rt Hon TonyGrant, Bernie (Tottenham)
Benton, JoeGriffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Bermingham, GeraldGriffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Berry, RogerGrocott, Bruce
Betts, CliveGunnell, John
Blunkett, DavidHain, Peter
Boateng, PaulHall, Mike
Bradley, KeithHanson, David
Bray, Dr JeremyHarman, Ms Harriet
Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)Harvey, Nick
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)Henderson, Doug
Burden, RichardHeppell, John
Byers, StephenHill, Keith (Streatham)
Caborn, RichardHinchliffe, David
Callaghan, JimHodge, Margaret
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)Hoey, Kate
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld)
Campbell-Savours, D NHood, Jimmy
Canavan, DennisHoon, Geoffrey
Cann, JamieHowarth, George (Knowsley North)
Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery)Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)
Chidgey, DavidHoyle, Doug
Chisholm, MalcolmHughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Church, JudithHughes, Robert (Aberdeen N)
Clapham, MichaelHughes, Roy (Newport E)
Clark, Dr David (South Shields)Hutton, John
Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)Illsley, Eric
Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)Ingram, Adam
Clelland, DavidJackson, Glenda (H'stead)
Clwyd, Mrs AnnJamieson, David
Cohen, HarryJanner, Greville
Connarty, MichaelJones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)
Corbett, RobinJones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Mon)
Corbyn, JeremyJones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)
Corston, JeanJones, Lynne (B'ham S O)
Cousins, JimJones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW)
Cummings, JohnJones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Cunliffe, LawrenceJowell, Tessa
Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Dafis, CynogKeen, Alan
Dalyell, TamKennedy, Charles (Ross,C&S)
Darling, AlistairKennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn)
Davidson, IanKhabra, Piara S
Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)Kilfoyle, Peter
Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)Lewis, Terry
Dewar, DonaldLiddell, Mrs Helen
Dixon, DonLitherland, Robert
Dobson, FrankLivingstone, Ken
Donohoe, Brian HLloyd, Tony (Stretford)
Dowd, JimLlwyd, Elfyn
Dunnachie, JimmyLoyden, Eddie
Dunwoody, Mrs GwynethMcAllion, John
Eagle, Ms AngelaMcAvoy, Thomas
Eastham, KenMcCartney, Ian
Enright, DerekMcCrea, The Reverend William
Etherington, BillMacdonald, Calum
Evans, John (St Helens N)McFall, John
Fatchett, DerekMcKelvey, William
Field, Frank (Birkenhead)Mackinlay, Andrew
Fisher, MarkMcLeish, Henry
Flynn, PaulMcMaster, Gordon
Foster, Rt Hon DerekMcNamara, Kevin
Foulkes, GeorgeMacShane, Denis
Fraser, JohnMcWilliam, John
Fyfe, MariaMadden, Max
Galbraith, SamMaddock, Diana
Galloway, GeorgeMarek, Dr John
Gapes, MikeMarshall, David (Shettleston)
George, BruceMarshall, Jim (Leicester, S)
Gerrard, NeilMartlew, Eric
Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr JohnMaxton, John
Godman, Dr Norman AMeacher, Michael
Godsiff, RogerMeale, Alan
Golding, Mrs LinMichael, Alun
Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley)Sedgemore, Brian
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)Sheerman, Barry
Milburn, AlanSheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Miller, AndrewShore, Rt Hon Peter
Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)Short, Clare
Moonie, Dr LewisSimpson, Alan
Morgan, RhodriSkinner, Dennis
Morley, ElliotSmith, Andrew (Oxford E)
Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley)Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury)
Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon)Soley, Clive
Mowlam, MarjorieSpearing, Nigel
Mudie, GeorgeSpellar, John
Mullin, ChrisSquire, Rachel (Dunfermline W)
Murphy, PaulSteel, Rt Hon Sir David
Oakes, Rt Hon GordonSteinberg, Gerry
O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire)Stevenson, George
O'Brien, William (Normanton)Stott, Roger
O'Hara, EdwardStrang, Dr. Gavin
Olner, BillSutcliffe, Gerry
O'Neill, MartinTaylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Orme, Rt Hon StanleyTaylor, Mathew (Truro)
Patchett, TerryThompson, Jack (Wansbeck)
Pearson, IanTimms, Stephen
Pickthall, ColinTipping, Paddy
Pike, Peter LTouhig, Don
Turner, Dennis
Pope, GregTyler, Paul
Powell, Ray (Ogmore)Vaz, Keith
Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E)Wallace, James
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)Walley, Joan
Prescott, Rt Hon JohnWardell, Gareth (Gower)
Primarolo, DawnWareing, Robert N
Purchase, KenWatson, Mike
Quin, Ms JoyceWelsh, Andrew
Radice, GilesWicks, Malcolm
Randall, StuartWigley, Dafydd
Raynsford, NickWilliams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W)
Redmond, MartinWilliams, Alan W (Carmarthen)
Reid, Dr JohnWilson, Brian
Rendel, DavidWise, Audrey
Robertson, George (Hamilton)Worthington, Tony
Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW)Wray, Jimmy
Roche, Mrs BarbaraWright, Dr Tony
Rogers, AllanYoung, David (Bolton SE)
Rooker, Jeff
Rooney, TerryTellers for the Ayes:
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)Mr. Archy Kirkwood and
Ruddock, JoanMs Liz Lynne.
Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey)Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes
Aitken, Rt Hon JonathanBrandreth, Gyles
Alexander, RichardBrazier, Julian
Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby)Bright, Sir Graham
Allason, Rupert (Torbay)Brooke, Rt Hon Peter
Amess, DavidBrown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes)
Arbuthnot, JamesBrowning, Mrs Angela
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)Bruce, Ian (Dorset)
Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv)Budgen, Nicholas
Atkins, RobertBurns, Simon
Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E)Burt, Alistair
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)Butcher, John
Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset)Butler, Peter
Baldry, TonyCarlisle, John (Luton North)
Banks, Matthew (Southport)Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln)
Banks, Robert (Harrogate)Carrington, Matthew
Bates, MichaelCarttiss, Michael
Batiste, SpencerCash, William
Bellingham, HenryChannon, Rt Hon Paul
Bendall, VivianChapman, Sydney
Beresford, Sir PaulChurchill, Mr
Booth, HartleyClappison, James
Boswell, TimClark, Dr Michael (Rochford)
Bottomley, Rt Hon VirginiaClarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif)
Bowden, Sir AndrewCoe, Sebastian
Bowis, JohnCongdon, David
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st)Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford)
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W)
Cope, Rt Hon Sir JohnHunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W)
Cormack, Sir PatrickHunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)
Couchman, JamesHunter, Andrew
Cran, JamesJack, Michael
Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire)Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon)Jenkin, Bernard
Davies, Quentin (Stamford)Jessel, Toby
Davis, David (Boothferry)Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey
Day, StephenJones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)
Deva, Nirj JosephJones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr)
Devlin, TimJopling, Rt Hon Michael
Dicks, TerryKellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine
Dorrell, Rt Hon StephenKey, Robert
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord JamesKing, Rt Hon Tom
Dover, DenKirkhope, Timothy
Duncan, AlanKnapman, Roger
Duncan-Smith, IainKnight, Mrs Angela (Erewash)
Dunn, BobKnight, Greg (Derby N)
Durant, Sir AnthonyKynoch, George (Kincardine)
Dykes, HughLait, Mrs Jacqui
Elletson, HaroldLamont, Rt Hon Norman
Emery, Rt Hon Sir PeterLawrence, Sir Ivan
Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield)Legg, Barry
Evans, Jonathan (Brecon)Leigh, Edward
Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley)Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark
Evans, Roger (Monmouth)Lester, Jim (Broxtowe)
Evennett, DavidLidington, David
Faber, DavidLightbown, David
Fabricant, MichaelLilley, Rt Hon Peter
Fenner, Dame PeggyLloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham)
Field, Barry (Isle of Wight)Lord, Michael
Fishburn, DudleyLuff, Peter
Forman, NigelLyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
Forsyth, Rt Hon Michael (Stirling)MacGregor, Rt Hon John
Forth, EricMacKay, Andrew
Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring)Maclean, David
Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley)McLoughlin, Patrick
Freeman, Rt Hon RogerMcNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick
French, DouglasMadel, Sir David
Fry, Sir PeterMaitland, Lady Olga
Gale, RogerMalone, Gerald
Gallie, PhilMans, Keith
Gardiner, Sir GeorgeMarland, Paul
Garnier, EdwardMarshall, John (Hendon S)
Gillan, CherylMarshall, Sir Michael (Arundel)
Goodson-Wickes, Dr CharlesMartin, David (Portsmouth S)
Gorman, Mrs TeresaMates, Michael
Gorst, Sir JohnMawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian
Grant, Sir A (SW Cambs)Mellor, Rt Hon David
Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)Merchant, Piers
Greenway, John (Ryedale)Mills, Iain
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N)Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)
Grylls, Sir MichaelMitchell, Sir David (NW Hants)
Hague, WilliamMoate, Sir Roger
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir ArchibaldMonro, Sir Hector
Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)Montgomery, Sir Fergus
Hampson, Dr KeithNelson, Anthony
Hanley, Rt Hon JeremyNeubert, Sir Michael
Hannam, Sir JohnNewton, Rt Hon Tony
Harris, DavidNicholson, David (Taunton)
Haselhurst, AlanNicholson, Emma (Devon West)
Hawkins, NickNorris, Steve
Hawksely, WarrenOnslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley
Hayes, JerryOppenheim, Phillip
Heald, OliverOttaway, Richard
Heathcoat-Amory, DavidPaice, James
Hendry, CharlesPatnick, Sir Irvine
Heseltine, Rt Hon MichaelPattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Higgins, Rt Hon Sir TerencePawsey, James
Hill, James (Southampton Test)Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham)Pickles, Eric
Horam, JohnPorter, David (Waveney)
Hordern, Rt Hon Sir PeterPortillo, Rt Hon Michael
Howard, Rt Hon MichaelPowell, William (Corby)
Rathbone, TimSweeney, Walter
Redwood, Rt Hon JohnTapsell, Sir Peter
Renton, Rt Hon TimTaylor, Ian (Esher)
Richards, RodTaylor, John M (Solihull)
Riddick, GrahamTemple-Morris, Peter
Rifkind, Rt Hon MalcolmThompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Robathan, AndrewThurnham, Peter
Roberts, Rt Hon Sir WynTownend, John (Bridlington)
Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S)Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th)
Robinson, Mark (Somerton)Tracey, Richard
Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne)Tredinnick, David
Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame AngelaTrend, Michael
Ryder, Rt Hon RichardTrotter, Neville
Sackville, TomTwinn, Dr Ian
Scott, Rt Hon Sir NicholasVaughan, Sir Gerard
Shaw, David (Dover)Waldegrave, Rt Hon William
Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)Walden, George
Shephard, Rt Hon GillianWalker, Bill (N Tayside)
Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)Ward, John
Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)Wardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Shersby, MichaelWaterson, Nigel
Sims, RogerWatts, John
Skeet, Sir TrevorWheeler, Rt Hon Sir John
Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick)Whitney, Ray
Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)Whittingdale, John
Soames, NicholasWiddecombe, Ann
Spencer, Sir DerekWiggin, Sir Jerry
Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset)Wilkinson, John
Spicer, Michael (S Worcs)Willetts, David
Spink, Dr RobertWilshire, David
Spring, RichardWinterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Sproat, IainWolfson, Mark
Squire, Robin (Hornchurch)Wood, Timothy
Stanley, Rt Hon Sir JohnYeo, Tim
Steen, AnthonyYoung, Rt Hon Sir George
Stern, Michael
Stewart, AllanTellers for the Noes:
Streeter, GaryMr. Derek Conway and
Sumberg, DavidMr. Bowen Wells.

Question accordingly negatived.

It being after Ten o 'clock, further consideration of the Bill stood adjourned.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 14 (Exempted business)

That, at this day's sitting, the Jobseekers Bill may be proceeded with, though opposed, until any hour.—[Mr. Bates.]

Question agreed to.

As amended (in the Standing Committee), again considered.

Amendment proposed: No. 3, in page 18, line 48, leave out 'two years' and insert 'one year'.—[Mr. Bradley.]

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 260, Noes 280.

Division No. 112]10.17 pm
Abbott, Ms DianeBayley, Hugh
Adams, Mrs IreneBeckett, Rt Hon Margaret
Ainger, NickBeith, Rt Hon A J
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)Bell, Stuart
Allen, GrahamBenn, Rt Hon Tony
Alton, DavidBermingham, Gerald
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)Berry, Roger
Armstrong, HilaryBetts, Clive
Ashton, JoeBlunkett, David
Austin-Walker, JohnBoateng, Paul
Banks, Tony (Newham NW)Bradley, Keith
Barnes, HarryBray, Dr Jeremy
Barron, KevinBrown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)
Battle, JohnBruce, Malcolm (Gordon)
Burden, RichardHill, Keith (Streatham)
Byers, StephenHinchliffe, David
Caborn, RichardHodge, Margaret
Callaghan, JimHoey, Kate
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)Hood, Jimmy
Campbell-Savours, D NHoon, Geoffrey
Canavan, DennisHowarth, George (Knowsley North)
Cann, JamieHowells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)
Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery)Hoyle, Doug
Chidgey, DavidHughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Chisholm, MalcolmHughes, Robert (Aberdeen N)
Church, JudithHughes, Roy (Newport E)
Clapham, MichaelHughes, Simon (Southwark)
Clark, Dr David (South Shields)Hutton, John
Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)Illsley, Eric
Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)Jackson, Glenda (H'stead)
Clelland, DavidJackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H)
Clwyd, Mrs AnnJamieson, David
Cohen, HarryJanner, Greville
Connarty, MichaelJones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)
Corbett, RobinJones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Mon)
Corbyn, JeremyJones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)
Corston, JeanJones, Lynne (B'ham S O)
Cousins, JimJones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW)
Cummings, JohnJones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Cunliffe, LawrenceJowell, Tessa
Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Dafis, CynogKeen, Alan
Dalyell, TamKennedy, Charles (Ross,C&S)
Darling, AlistairKennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn)
Davidson, IanKhabra, Piara S
Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)Kilfoyle, Peter
Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)Kirkwood, Archy
Dewar, DonaldLewis, Terry
Dixon, DonLiddell, Mrs Helen
Dobson, FrankLitherland, Robert
Donohoe, Brian HLivingstone, Ken
Dowd, JimLloyd, Tony (Stretford)
Dunnachie, JimmyLlwyd, Elfyn
Dunwoody, Mrs GwynethLoyden, Eddie
Eagle, Ms AngelaLynne, Ms Liz
Eastham, KenMcAllion, John
Enright, DerekMcAvoy, Thomas
Etherington, BillMcCartney, Ian
Evans, John (St Helens N)McCrea, The Reverend William
Fatchett, DerekMacdonald, Calum
Fisher, MarkMcFall, John
Flynn, PaulMcKelvey, William
Foster, Rt Hon DerekMackinlay, Andrew
Foulkes, GeorgeMcLeish, Henry
Fraser, JohnMcMaster, Gordon
Fyfe, MariaMcNamara, Kevin
Galbraith, SamMacShane, Denis
Galloway, GeorgeMcWilliam, John
Gapes, MikeMadden, Max
George, BruceMaddock, Diana
Gerrard, NeilMarek, Dr John
Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr JohnMarshall, David (Shettleston)
Godman, Dr Norman AMarshall, Jim (Leicester, S)
Godsiff, RogerMartlew, Eric
Golding, Mrs LlinMaxton, John
Gordon, MildredMeacher, Michael
Graham, ThomasMeale, Alan
Grant, Bernie (Tottenham)Michael, Alun
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)
Grocott, BruceMilburn, Alan
Gunnell, JohnMiller, Andrew
Hain, PeterMitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)
Hall, MikeMoonie, Dr Lewis
Hanson, DavidMorgan, Rhodri
Harman, Ms HarrietMorley, Elliot
Harvey, NickMorris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley)
Henderson, DougMorris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon)
Heppell, JohnMowlam, Marjorie
Mudie, GeorgeSkinner, Dennis
Mullin, ChrisSmith, Andrew (Oxford E)
Murphy, PaulSmith, Chris (Islton S & F'sbury)
Oakes, Rt Hon GordonSoley, Clive
O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire)Spearing, Nigel
O'Brien, William (Normanton)Spellar, John
O'Hara, EdwardSquire, Rachel (Dunfermline W)
Olner, BillSteel, Rt Hon Sir David
O'Neill, MartinSteinberg, Gerry
Orme, Rt Hon StanleyStevenson, George
Patchett, TerryStott, Roger
Pearson, IanStrang, Dr. Gavin
Pickthall, ColinSutcliffe, Gerry
Pike, Peter LTaylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Pope, GregTaylor, Matthew (Truro)
Powell, Ray (Ogmore)Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck)
Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E)Timms, Stephen
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)Tipping, Paddy
Prescott, Rt Hon JohnTouhig, Don
Primarolo, DawnTurner, Dennis
Purchase, KenTyler, Paul
Quin, Ms JoyceVaz, Keith
Radice, GilesWallace, James
Randall, StuartWalley, Joan
Raynsford, NickWardell, Gareth (Gower)
Redmond, MartinWareing, Robert N
Reid, Dr JohnWatson, Mike
Rendel, DavidWelsh, Andrew
Robertson, George (Hamilton)Wicks, Malcolm
Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW)Wigley, Dafydd
Roche, Mrs BarbaraWilliams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W)
Rogers, AllanWilliams, Alan W (Carmarthen)
Rooker, JeffWilson, Brian
Rooney, TerryWise, Audrey
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)Worthington, Tony
Ruddock, JoanWray, Jimmy
Sedgemore, BrianWright, Dr Tony
Sheerman, BarryYoung, David (Bolton SE)
Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Shore, Rt Hon PeterTellers for the Ayes:
Short, ClareMr. Joe Benton and
Simpson, AlanMr. Alan Ingram.
Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey)Browning, Mrs Angela
Aitken, Rt Hon JonathanBruce, Ian (Dorset)
Alexander, RichardBudgen, Nicholas
Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby)Burns, Simon
Allason, Rupert (Torbay)Burt, Alistair
Amess, DavidButcher, John
Arbuthnot, JamesButler, Peter
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)Carlisle, John (Luton North)
Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv)Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln)
Atkins, RobertCarrington, Matthew
Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E)Carttiss, Michael
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)Cash, William
Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset)Channon, Rt Hon Paul
Baldry, TonyChapman, Sydney
Banks, Matthew (Southport)Churchill, Mr
Banks, Robert (Harrogate)Clappison, James
Bates, MichaelClark, Dr Michael (Rochford)
Batiste, SpencerClarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif)
Bellingham, HenryCoe, Sebastian
Bendall, VivianCongdon, David
Beresford, Sir PaulConway, Derek
Booth, HartleyCoombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st)
Boswell, TimCoombs, Simon (Swindon)
Bottomley, Rt Hon VirginiaCope, Rt Hon Sir John
Bowden, Sir AndrewCormack, Sir Patrick
Bowis, JohnCouchman, James
Boyson, Rt Hon Sir RhodesCran, James
Brandreth, GylesCurrie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire)
Brazier, JulianCurry, David (Skipton & Ripon)
Bright, Sir GrahamDavies, Quentin (Stamford)
Brooke, Rt Hon PeterDavis, David (Boothferry)
Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes)Day, Stephen
Deva, Nirj JosephJones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr)
Devlin, TimJopling, Rt Hon Michael
Dicks, TerryKellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine
Dorrell, Rt Hon StephenKey, Robert
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord JamesKing, Rt Hon Tom
Dover, DenKirkhope, Timothy
Duncan, AlanKnapman, Roger
Duncan-Smith, IainKnight, Mrs Angela (Erewash)
Dunn, BobKnight, Greg (Derby N)
Durant, Sir AnthonyKynoch, George (Kincardine)
Dykes, HughLait, Mrs Jacqui
Elletson, HaroldLamont, Rt Hon Norman
Emery, Rt Hon Sir PeterLawrence, Sir Ivan
Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield)Legg, Barry
Evans, Jonathan (Brecon)Leigh, Edward
Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley)Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark
Evans, Roger (Monmouth)Lester, Jim (Broxtowe)
Evennett, DavidLidington, David
Faber, DavidLightbown, David
Fabricant, MichaelLilley, Rt Hon Peter
Fenner, Dame PeggyLloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham)
Field, Barry (Isle of Wight)Lord, Michael
Fishburn, DudleyLuff, Peter
Forman, NigelLyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
Forsylh, Rt Hon Michael (Stirling)MacGregor, Rt Hon John
Forth, EricMacKay, Andrew
Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley)Maclean, David
Freeman, Rt Hon RogerMcLoughlin, Patrick
French, DouglasMcNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick
Fry, Sir PeterMadel, Sir David
Gale, RogerMaitland, Lady Olga
Gallie, PhilMalone, Gerald
Gardiner, Sir GeorgeMans, Keith
Garnier, EdwardMarland, Paul
Gillan, CherylMarlow, Tony
Goodson-Wickes, Dr CharlesMarshall, John (Hendon S)
Gorman, Mrs TeresaMarshall, Sir Michael (Arundel)
Gorst, Sir JohnMartin, David (Portsmouth S)
Grant, Sir A (SW Cambs)Mates, Michael
Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian
Greenway, John (Ryedale)Mellor, Rt Hon David
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N)Merchant, Piers
Grylls, Sir MichaelMills, Iain
Gummer, Rt Hon John SelwynMitchell, Andrew (Gedling)
Hague, WilliamMitchell, Sir David (NW Hants)
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir ArchibaldMoate, Sir Roger
Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)Monro, Sir Hector
Hampson, Dr KeithMontgomery, Sir Fergus
Hanley, Rt Hon JeremyNelson, Anthony
Hannam, Sir JohnNeubert, Sir Michael
Harris, DavidNewton, Rt Hon Tony
Haselhurst, AlanNicholson, David (Taunton)
Hawkins, NickNicholson, Emma (Devon West)
Hawksley, WarrenNorris, Steve
Hayes, JerryOnslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley
Heald, OliverOppenheim, Phillip
Heathcoat-Amory, DavidOttaway, Richard
Hendry, CharlesPaice, James
Heseltine, Rt Hon MichaelPatrick, Sir Irvine
Higgins, Rt Hon Sir TerencePattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Hill, James (Southampton Test)Pawsey, James
Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham)Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Horam, JohnPickles, Eric
Hordem, Rt Hon Sir PeterPorter, David (Waveney)
Howard, Rt Hon MichaelPortillo, Rt Hon Michael
Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford)Powell, William (Corby)
Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W)Rathbone, Tim
Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W)Redwood, Rt Hon John
Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)Renton, Rt Hon Tim
Hunter, AndrewRichards, Rod
Jack, MichaelRiddick, Graham
Jackson, Robert (Wantage)Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm
Jenkin, BernardRobathan, Andrew
Jessel, TobyRoberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn
Johnson Smith, Sir GeoffreyRobertson, Raymond (Ab'd"n S)
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)Robinson, Mark (Somerton)
Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne)Thornton, Sir Malcolm
Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame AngelaThurnham, Peter
Ryder, Rt Hon RichardTownend, John (Bridlington)
Sackville, TomTownsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th)
Scott, Rt Hon Sir NicholasTracey, Richard
Shaw, David (Dover)Tredinnick, David
Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)Trend, Michael
Shephard, Rt Hon GillianTrotter, Neville
Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)Twinn, Dr Ian
Shersby, MichaelVaughan, Sir Gerard
Sims, RogerWaldegrave, Rt Hon William
Skeet, Sir TrevorWalden, George
Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick)Walker, Bill (N Tayside)
Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)Ward, John
Soames, NicholasWardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Spencer, Sir DerekWaterson, Nigel
Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset)Watts, John
Spicer, Michael (S Worcs)Wells, Bowen
Spink, Dr RobertWheeler, Rt Hon Sir John
Spring, RichardWhitney, Ray
Sproat, IainWhittingdale, John
Squire, Robin (Hornchurch)Widdecombe, Ann
Stanley, Rt Hon Sir JohnWiggin, Sir Jerry
Steen, AnthonyWilkinson, John
Stem, MichaelWilshire, David
Stewart, AllanWinterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Streeter, GaryWolfson, Mark
Sumberg, DavidWood, Timothy
Sweeney, WalterYeo, Tim
Tapsell, Sir PeterYoung, Rt Hon Sir George
Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Taylor, John M (Solihull)Tellers for the Noes:
Temple-Morris, PeterMr. David Willetts and
Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)Dr. Liam Fox.

Question accordingly negatived.