Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 10:54 pm on 28 February 1994.
Because my hon. Friend the Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan) has spoken with such good sense tonight, we can all be sure that it will not be reported in the national media and press tomorrow.
I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this Adjournment debate. He has raised a number of extremely important issues, and I would find it difficult to argue against most of his propositions. His constituents can rest assured that their Member of Parliament means what he says and carries out his word.
As it happens, I have a copy of the Leicester Mercury of Saturday 16 October 1993. The headline is: "Bridge battle will go to Parliament". It has, and here it is. My hon. Friend has brought the battle here, as he said he would. In the journal, there is a photograph of my hon. Friend with a large number of people who were showing him exactly what they meant about the issue of footpaths.
I know that I will not have time to answer all the points raised by my hon. Friend, but I undertake to write to him on the detail. I shall concentrate on his major proposition, which is that we need a new approach to transport and the car in this country.
Of course he is right, and that is happening, although one may be forgiven for not realising that from reading what is written in the press by the various environmental and some of the motoring correspondents, who seem not to listen to this sort of debate. In such debates, Members of Parliament and Ministers can sort out a few of the controversial issues of the day.
My hon. Friend talked about the growth in traffic. He is absolutely right. In December, we announced a review of the methodology of traffic forecasting. For some time, I have not been convinced that we had it right, so we are looking at that with the help of outside, independent experts.
Hon. Members may say that that is clearly meant to be a cover-up—that we just change the statistics. As someone who taught economics for 16 years before entering the House, I know that George Bernard Shaw said:
If you laid all the economists in the world end to end, they would not reach a conclusion.
My hon. Friend then listed a number of important and practical points which concerned his constituents—for example, noise. Noise can be so intrusive. I happen to live next to a major road. I find it rather more quiet in my tiny flat in central London than in the pastures of Wiltshire, and the reason is traffic noise.
My hon. Friend was generous to point out that my Department is providing a great deal of screening from traffic noise. We are doing more. We are making enormous technological and engineering progress—for example, in new kinds of concrete surfaces. I am not talking about those terrible road surfaces that roar all night across the country; I am talking about whisper concrete technology and porous asphalt technology, which is coming on apace. Therefore, we can tackle noise to some extent.
Clearly, pollution also extends to emission pollution. My right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with his policy on fuel duties, has given a long-term signal of the direction in which we mean to move here. My hon. Friend referred to sustainable development. That is very important. The Department of Transport was a major player in my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister's launch of our sustainable development policy a little while ago.
My hon. Friend also referred to asthma, which afflicts so many people. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health has established a working group on that, which expects to report in the first half of this year on asthma and traffic. A number of other reports have been made, which of course I have seen.
My hon. Friend also mentioned light pollution. I could not agree with him more. One of the most distressing things about the countryside now is the way in which it tends to be lighted by roads. But good news is at hand. Only last year, I published a good lighting guide for transport engineers, which points out that new lighting technology has improved the situation dramatically. Spillage of light from roads will be minimised—we will never get rid of it completely. Light on our major motorways and trunk roads is important for safety, but I am at one with my hon. Friend on the distress which light pollution can cause in the countryside.
I am looking urgently at the deep problems which affect transport in this country. For example, we must look at the motives for travel. Obviously, freight is a prime motive for any kind of transport in different modes, as is commerce and business. Leisure and pleasure are increasingly important motives for use of different modes of transport. They are important, because 90 per cent. of our journeys and freight travel by road, yet 40 per cent. of my Department's budget is spent on public transport subsidy, and quite right too.
Nevertheless, we must discuss the motives for travel, and we must address fairly and squarely issues such as demand management. That means different things to different people. To some it means marginal cost pricing. I feel strongly about that. I have thought it odd for many years that we priced marginally the cost of a journey by train, plane, taxi or bus, but not by motor car or goods vehicle.
There is also the question of integrating planning with our transport, which is a part of demand management. Urban congestion, charging and road pricing are also involved. Of course, the management of demand can also refer to the management of the consequences of demand, and that is different. The consequences of demand include the congestion and pollution to which my hon. Friend referred. We must address also the important issues, such as whether it is the number of cars or the number in use at any one time.
We must do much research with the motor industry, which is concerned that the number of vehicles will fall in the coming years. That would be bad for employment in this country. The Government are often criticised for our failure to achieve long-term planning. The current roads programme was envisaged and detailed in 1989 in a White Paper.
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I have been engaged since August last year in a prioritisation review of the road programme in this country. One of the motives for that is the establishment of the Highways Agency, which will be up and running from 5 April and will be charged with our road programme and the planning and maintenance which eats up such a substantial and growing part of the roads budget.
That will leave Ministers with rather more time to concentrate on proper integrated transport policies. Of course, it is right that we should encourage the use of modes of transport other than motor car. We must also recognise that the car will be with us for a long time.
My hon. Friend may be interested to know that this afternoon I was the co-chairman of the Greener Motoring Forum, which was established by my hon. Friend the Minister for the Environment and Countryside. The forum had representatives from car manufacturers, motoring organisations, local authorities and a number of other people who are interested in the future of transport in this country. That included the Department of Trade and Industry, because we do not build roads for fun. We build roads, and improve and maintain them, to ensure the economic prosperity of this country.
My hon. Friend said in the Leicester Mercury on 16 October 1993—I am sure that he remembers it as if it were yesterday—that, if we are to have roads, we must take account of the people who already live near them and their ancient rights of way.
My hon. Friend mentioned the Grand Union canal and the dismantled railway that traverses his constituency in the area of Glen Parva. I have so much sympathy for his constituent who described what the area was like some years ago.
I am sorry that we were not able to accept the Glen Parva bypass for transport supplementary grant in 1994–95. Competition for funds was fierce this year, particularly as it has been necessary to reduce funding for local transport infrastructure by 15 per cent. Even more rigorous scrutiny of local authority bids than usual was warranted in the light of the current economic climate. The decision letter to Leicestershire county council included some detailed advice on bidding for funding for new major schemes in the context of the package bids for funding in urban areas.
I know that I shall have to end on this note, Madam Deputy Speaker. Package bids are a new feature of our transport supplementary grant. It means that we can invite local authorities to put together integrated transport bids that give proper attention not only to the motor car, to roads and to the quality of life of people who live beside roads as well as those who use them, but to cyclists and to pedestrians.
I shall shortly announce a new Government cycling policy. I am not sure that we have ever had one, but it is high time that we did. Also, we shall encourage local authorities in those package bids to bid for pedestrianisation schemes, which will add so much to the quality of life.
The Department of Transport is accused of many things. It cannot be accused of failing to look forward with optimism and realism to the needs of the next century. It is a demanding challenge, and one which I accept. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing me to air some of the arguments tonight.