Local Government Services

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 2:22 pm on 16 April 1993.

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Photo of John Redwood John Redwood Minister (Department of Environment) (Local Government) 2:22, 16 April 1993

Swimming pools are often better run by the private sector. I hope that many will contract out or market-test the facilities. Many new facilities can be well provided by the private sector. I am keen to encourage it, unlike the hon. Gentleman, who seems to be saying that if something is not provided by the public sector it does not count and it is not a public facility. Those facilities that are provided at private expense are every bit as much public facilities, if open to the public, as are the others. The hon. Gentleman may want all golf courses to be municipally owned. I am happy to have a lot of private sector golf courses open to those who wish to use them.

The hon. Gentleman said that he and his party are still not in sympathy with standard spending assessments. However, both he and his party will, I believe, agree that there needs to be a method of calculating exactly how much grant each local authority receives. I do not think that the Labour party would argue the case that we should just send a fixed amount per head for every person in the country to the different local authority areas. They want a more sophisticated system than that, as well they might, because it tends to be their councils that receive far bigger grants as a result of the sophistication that we have introduced into the system.

I say both to the hon. Gentleman and to his hon. Friends who raised the standard spending assessment issue, and also to the hon. Member for Southwark and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes), representing the Liberal Democrats, that we are now reviewing again this year the principles and the figures used in the SSA calculations. I should be delighted if the Labour party—even, perhaps, the Labour-Liberal alliance, or the Liberal party on its own—could come to an agreed view about how the SSAs should be calculated. We should be prepared to take that view fully into account in our considerations.

I have asked local government, of all parties and of none, to give the Department their best views. Again, I would hope that the local authority associations would try to bring their views closer together. I fear, however, that this year, as in past years, the interests of urban authorities will often be seen to be different from those of rural ones and that the interests of big towns will be seen to be different from those of villages and small towns. Sometimes, Labour authorities have a different view of their interests from Conservative ones, and so forth.

It is not easy to bring it all together. Ultimately, only the Government and the House of Commons can decide exactly how the money is to be distributed. But it is a genuine consultation. I have not decided what the answer should be in advance; nor has the Secretary of State. We are open to discussion with all parties that are seriously interested in SSAs.

The House might like to know that I have not yet had a communication from the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North, or from the shadow Secretary of State for the Environment, setting out what Labour's view is. I shall, of course, keep the House posted if they come to an agreed view among themselves.

I fear also that the House did not receive a completely frank account today from the shadow spokesman on the Labour party's policy towards compulsory competitive tendering. I think that progress is being made. Many Opposition Members agreed that competitive tendering can be valuable. Some agreed that competitive tendering and market testing can produce improved quality. Many agreed that it can often produce lower costs. Many also agreed that they have often been doing it in Labour authorities. But on the crucial issue of what the Labour party would recommend doing if a local authority refused to market test anything and was demonstrably inefficient, we did not get quite the clarity that we seek. Perhaps another debate will be needed to tease out that point.

In advance of the local elections—important elections to elect people to make big decisions about local services and the expenditure of large sums of money—there is naturally some considerable interest in the cost of the services and the range of services provided by the authorities controlled by the different parties. It is a pity that today the Labour party has seen fit yet again to try to mislead the public about what exactly is the difference in the cost of the provision of services for taxpayers in Labour and Conservative areas.

It is necessary, therefore, once again to remind the House that it is nearly always dearer to live under Labour local government than under Conservative local government and that the gap is now more than £100 per household for band C and band D households throughout the country. In every case, the highest taxes are imposed by Labour authorities and the lowest by Conservative authorities. Among county councils, Northumberland is the highest and Hampshire the lowest, and the gap for a band C taxpayer is almost £150 between the two. Among metropolitan districts, Newcastle, which is well known to the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North, sets the highest tax, and Trafford, which is Conservative controlled, sets the lowest. The gap is almost £250 between the two. Among London boroughs, Greenwich, which is Labour controlled, charges £550 for borough services, compared with Westminster, which is Conservative controlled, at £117—an enormous gap of more than £400. That is the truth.