Rating and Valuation

– in the House of Commons at 6:57 pm on 10 March 1993.

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Motion made, and Question put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 101(5) (Standing Committees on Statutory Instruments, &c.),That that the draft Water Undertakers (Rateable Values) (Amendment) Order 1993, which was laid before this House on 4th February, be approved.—[Mr. Arbuthnot.]

The House divided: Ayes 143, Noes 40.

Division No. 190][10.20 pm
AYES
Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey)Hawksley, Warren
Aitken, JonathanHeald, Oliver
Alexander, RichardHeathcoat-Amory, David
Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby)Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence L.
Alton, DavidHughes Robert G. (Harrow W)
Amess, DavidHughes, Simon (Southwark)
Ancram, MichaelHunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)
Arbuthnot, JamesJack, Michael
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv)Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)Jones, Robert B. (W Hertfdshr)
Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley)Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine
Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North)Kilfedder, Sir James
Beith, Rt Hon A. J.Kirkwood, Archy
Bendall, VivianKnapman, Roger
Beresford, Sir PaulKnight, Greg (Derby N)
Blackburn, Dr John G.Kynoch, George (Kincardine)
Bonsor, Sir NicholasLait, Mrs Jacqui
Bowis, JohnLegg, Barry
Brandreth, GylesLennox-Boyd, Mark
Brazier, JulianLidington, David
Bright, GrahamLord, Michael
Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes)Luff, Peter
Browning, Mrs. AngelaLyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
Burt, AlistairLynne, Ms Liz
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)MacKay, Andrew
Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry)Maclean, David
Carrington, MatthewMalone, Gerald
Carttiss, MichaelMans, Keith
Cash, WilliamMarlow, Tony
Chapman, SydneyMerchant, Piers
Clappison, JamesMoate, Sir Roger
Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ruclif)Neubert, Sir Michael
Clifton-Brown, GeoffreyNewton, Rt Hon Tony
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)Nicholls, Patrick
Cope, Rt Hon Sir JohnPage, Richard
Cran, JamesPatnick, Irvine
Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire)Pawsey, James
Davies, Quentin (Stamford)Porter, David (Waveney)
Davis, David (Boothferry)Redwood, John
Devlin, TimRichards, Rod
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord JamesRiddick, Graham
Dover, DenRoberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn
Duncan, AlanRobertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S)
Duncan-Smith, IainRobinson, Mark (Somerton)
Dunn, BobRyder, Rt Hon Richard
Elletson, HaroldShaw, David (Dover)
Evans, Jonathan (Brecon)Sims, Roger
Faber, DavidSmith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
Fabricant, MichaelSpeed, Sir Keith
Fenner, Dame PeggySpencer, Sir Derek
Fishburn, DudleySpink, Dr Robert
Foster, Don (Bath)Sproat, Iain
Freeman, RogerSteel, Rt Hon Sir David
Gale, RogerSteen, Anthony
Gallie, PhilStephen, Michael
Gardiner, Sir GeorgeStern, Michael
Garel-Jones, Rt Hon TristanStewart, Allan
Gill, ChristopherStreeter, Gary
Goodson-Wickes, Dr CharlesSykes, John
Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Greenway, John (Ryedale)Thomason, Roy
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N)Thurnham, Peter
Hague, WilliamTrend, Michael
Hanley, JeremyTwinn, Dr Ian
Harris, DavidTyler, Paul
Haselhurst, AlanViggers, Peter
Walden, GeorgeWilletts, David
Waller, GaryWood, Timothy
Wardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Waterson, NigelTellers for the Ayes:
Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir JohnMr. David Lightbown and
Whittingdale, JohnMr. Andrew McKay.
Widdecombe, Ann
NOES
Bayley, HughJamieson, David
Bennett, Andrew F.Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)
Callaghan, JimJones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)
Campbell-Savours, D. N.Loyden, Eddie
Cann, JamieMcAvoy, Thomas
Chisholm, MalcolmMartin, Michael J. (Springburn)
Clark, Dr David (South Shields)Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley)
Clwyd, Mrs AnnO'Brien, William (Normanton)
Cohen, HarryParry, Robert
Connarty, MichaelPrimarolo, Dawn
Cryer, BobRedmond, Martin
Davidson, IanRooney, Terry
Dixon, DonSkinner, Dennis
Fatchett, DerekSpellar, John
Flynn, PaulTaylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Gerrard, NeilWinnick, David
Godman, Dr Norman A.Wise, Audrey
Gordon, MildredWray, Jimmy
Graham, Thomas
Gunnell, JohnTellers for the Noes:
Hood, JimmyMr. Andrew Meale and
Illsley, EricMr. Harry Barnes.

Question accordingly agreed to.

Photo of Alan Beith Alan Beith Shadow Spokesperson (Treasury)

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The confusion among hon. Members earlier about whether they should rise or sit to cast their vote may have arisen because they had forgotten that Standing Order No. 39 was invoked in July 1975 by the Labour Government against my right hon. Friends and myself and various Members present today, including the hon. Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Cryer).

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. Member should have said "under a Labour Government".

It might be for the convenience of the House if I try to clarify matters. I now have the second report of the Select Committee on Procedure from the 1976–77 Session, paragraph 5 of which on page 6 says: Your Committee consider that the requirement to be covered should remain, and that any form of headgear should be acceptable, but that for reasons already stated, such articles as hankerchiefs or Order papers, which are instantly available to all Members, should not be accepted. The Committee considers that the same rule should apply to lady Members. It recommends that a second piece of headgear should be kept behind the Chair. I hope that hon. Members will accept that that is the reference that has guided me this evening.

Photo of Mr Dale Campbell-Savours Mr Dale Campbell-Savours , Workington

Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Will you remind the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith), who I understood was a master of procedure, that he is wrong? A Labour Government did not exercise the procedure; Mr. Speaker did. Perhaps he should know the rule.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

I thought that I had made that clear.

Photo of Mr Dale Campbell-Savours Mr Dale Campbell-Savours , Workington

Will you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, clarify the position with regard to wearing the hat? Many of us are deeply embarrassed at having to wear headgear of such a nature. [Interruption.] It is a fair point to make. We believe that it brings ridicule on Parliament and on us as Members. Therefore, as the proceedings of the House are now televised and transmitted all over the world, will you consider raising the matter with the Chairman of the Procedure Committee with a view to avoiding such embarrassment for Members?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. Gentleman knows as well as I do that any Member can raise such a matter with the Procedure Committee. I shall cogitate on whether it is appropriate that I should, but the hon. Gentleman may wish to make his own submission. I hope that that has finished the issue of the hat.

Photo of Mr Bob Cryer Mr Bob Cryer , Bradford South

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. During this evening's discussions and points of order, it has become clear that there are difficulties with the new microphone system. When hon. Members remain seated, as they are required to do during a Division, particularly those on the Front Bench, they are well out of range of the microphones. The new microphones were installed relatively recently, and clearly they are inadequate—particularly in respect of right hon. and hon. Members seated on the Front Benches near yourself, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Also, the microphones are normally switched off until a right hon. or hon. Member is called, when the nearest microphone is switched on. However, there appears to be some delay in that respect. I did not hear, for example, the point of order of my hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire, North-East (Mr. Barnes) because he was inaudible—not because of the noise in the Chamber but because of the lack of amplification. If this procedure is invoked again, that could lead to myriad points of order by seated right hon. and hon. Members. It might be helpful if the sound engineers could ascertain whether the microphones might be pointed downwards, so that points of order from seated right hon. and hon. Members wearing appropriate headgear might be heard.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Life is full of difficulties, but I will bring the hon. Gentleman's point to the attention of the Supervisor of Broadcasting.

Photo of Michael Connarty Michael Connarty , Falkirk East

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You quoted a definition to the effect that a readily available item would not be considered suitable headgear. You probably saw me labouring away at making this hat, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Would placing it behind the Chair be appropriate? Also, I am not someone who naturally wears a bonnet or an opera hat. Could not a decent, well-designed fedora also be placed behind the. Chair?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

I quoted the reference, and I urge the hon. Gentleman to read Hansard tomorrow morning and then decide on the kind of hat that he considers appropriate, within the rules of the House.

Photo of Mrs Elaine Kellett Mrs Elaine Kellett , Lancaster

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) to sit in that laconic way on the arm of his Bench?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Right hon. and hon. Members should sit on the Benches.

Photo of Dr Norman Godman Dr Norman Godman , Greenock and Port Glasgow

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have been sitting here listening quietly to your various comments. Perhaps I may ask you, in what I hope is a typically polite way, whether you are in a position to reply to my earlier point of order about motion No. 19?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

We are taking the motions one at a time.