Points of Order

– in the House of Commons at 4:25 pm on 2 June 1992.

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Photo of Michael Meacher Michael Meacher Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions 4:25, 2 June 1992

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. As more than 5,000 pensioners of the Maxwell pension schemes have been told that they will not receive any further pensions, and as Maxwell-controlled Liechtenstein companies, beyond the reach of the creditors and pensioners, have been uncovered, I rise to ask whether you have received any request from the Secretary of State for Social Security to make a statement on what steps he proposes to take to protect these pensioners from falling into poverty, through no fault of their own, over the next few weeks.

We keep being told that the Secretary of State is about to make a statement on the necessary reform of pension fund legislation, which the Government have studiously neglected for the past 10 years. What is urgent is a statement on the position of the Maxwell pensioners. As the Government are clearly liable, because of their failure to implement relevant protective regulations under the Social Security Act 1990, and also because of the manifest failure of the Investment Management Regulatory Organisation, will you use your good offices to ensure that we have a statement in the next few days on the essential issue of protecting the Maxwell pensioners?

Photo of Miss Betty Boothroyd Miss Betty Boothroyd Speaker of the House of Commons

The hon. Gentleman gives me more authority than I have. I have no means of instructing a Minister to make a statement. Perhaps I can answer the hon. Gentleman by saying that, had a statement been intended, it would have been on the annunciator. I received no such notice.

Photo of Simon Hughes Simon Hughes Opposition Deputy Chief Whip (Commons), Shadow Spokesperson (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think that this is a matter on which you are competent to rule. How can we get the Government to hold a debate on their policy on environment and development before the Rio summit? Am I right in thinking that the only way that Opposition Members can force such a debate is for a motion of no confidence in the Government's policy to be tabled today, and for that motion to secure the support of the Leader of the Labour party? Would not that mean that it had to be the first item of business tomorrow and had to be the subject of debate? We would then at last make sure that we debated the subject before the Government made policy, changed policy or gave up policy in Rio on behalf of this country.

Photo of Miss Betty Boothroyd Miss Betty Boothroyd Speaker of the House of Commons

If the hon. Gentleman were to reflect, he would realise that half-day debates are given to Opposition parties. He may care to use such an opportunity to debate this important subject.

Photo of Simon Hughes Simon Hughes Opposition Deputy Chief Whip (Commons), Shadow Spokesperson (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)

Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. You are right, but there are no Opposition days set down in the notified days of business. I am led to believe by what I have read in "Erskine May" that one can get priority for a debate through tabling a motion of no confidence. That point is not made explicit in "Erskine May", so I would be grateful if, on advice, you told us whether that is the way to secure such a debate this week.

Photo of Miss Betty Boothroyd Miss Betty Boothroyd Speaker of the House of Commons

If the hon. Gentleman had looked far enough into "Erskine May" he would have seen that no Speaker ever gives that type of guidance across the Floor of the House—even me. However, if he would like to come to see me, I will try to assist.

Photo of David Winnick David Winnick , Walsall North

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Will you confirm, as your predecessors have always done, to the best of my knowledge and certainly within my parliamentary lifetime, that one of the jobs of the House of Commons is to defend the interests of ordinary people? If only one person is subject to injury, that person should still be able to have the matter raised in the House of Commons. I ask you this because, as my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher) has pointed out from the Front Bench, there are pensioners living a life of destitution because the pension that they expected to have has been stolen from them by one of the most notorious of all crooks.

As Ministers refuse to make a statement, Madam Speaker, and bearing in mind that the Maxwell family apparently owns considerable assets abroad, what can be done to try to ensure that those people, who are after all entitled to justice, have their claim dealt with in the House of Commons?

Photo of Miss Betty Boothroyd Miss Betty Boothroyd Speaker of the House of Commons

The hon. Gentleman has been here long enough to know that that is not a matter for the Chair. The Chair is not in control of the business of the House. It is for the Government, through the usual channels, to determine business.

Photo of Dennis Skinner Dennis Skinner Member, Labour Party National Executive Committee

Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. Is it not also true that, notwithstanding the fact that the Speaker has no power to organise business, you would have considerable power if an application were made under Standing Order No. 20 for a debate on the Government's attitude to Rio in order to try to influence the Government before they made their decision in Brazil? Is it not also true that you would have similar powers in the event of a private notice question? If there were an application for a debate under Standing Order No. 20 or for a private notice question, you would have a good case for giving some guidance on how the matter could be dealt with in the House. In the end, Madam Speaker, you do have power to help in the matter, which is particularly relevant since the Opposition do not have an Opposition day on which to raise the matter with any immediacy.

Photo of Miss Betty Boothroyd Miss Betty Boothroyd Speaker of the House of Commons

As I am sure the House appreciates, I always look extremely carefully at all private notice questions and applications under Standing Order No. 20 that come across my desk.

Photo of Mr Max Madden Mr Max Madden , Bradford West

Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. Am I right in thinking that, although it is usual for Standing Order No. 20 applications to be submitted to you before midday on any sitting day, such an application can be made at any time? For instance, such an application could be made now, on the usual basis that the matter is urgent, specific and requires immediate attention, if you were prepared to accept it.

Photo of Miss Betty Boothroyd Miss Betty Boothroyd Speaker of the House of Commons

The hon. Gentleman is not quite right. I could consider such an application only if the matter was of extreme urgency and the urgency was not known before 12 noon on the day in question.

Photo of Mr Geoffrey Dickens Mr Geoffrey Dickens , Littleborough and Saddleworth

Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. Certainly you and I were here during Prime Minister's questions, but I am not sure which other hon. Members were present. If I recall correctly, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made it clear from the Dispatch Box that he hoped to secure an agreement at Rio and that that would not be the beginning and the end of the matter but that it would continue for many years with actions and agreements. Therefore, there can be no urgency about such a debate.

Photo of Miss Betty Boothroyd Miss Betty Boothroyd Speaker of the House of Commons

We are now involving ourselves in debate. We need not repeat the Prime Minister's words. They will be in Hansard for all of us to see.