Orders of the Day — Local Government Finance and Valuation Bill – in the House of Commons at 9:15 pm on 12 June 1991.
Mr Dick Douglas
, Dunfermline West
9:15,
12 June 1991
I beg to move Amendment No. 11, in page 6, line 41, leave out from 'instrument' to 'House' in line 42 and insert
'which shall not come into effect unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before and approved by each'.
I shall be brief on this simple issue of principle. The Government repeatedly argue that this is a paving measure. It is a time-honoured practice to use statutory instruments. About 100 years ago we might have been able to go against that practice, but it is difficult to do so today.
The Bill is a new and significant measure that affects everybody in Scotland, England and Wales. Statutory instruments using the negative procedure do nothing to enhance the stature of Parliament. The least that the Government can do for the mother of Parliaments is to replace the Bill's entitlement to use the negative procedure with the affirmative procedure. For many years we have seen how the Government Majority operates and it has been demonstrated again in Committee. If the Government do not accept my amendment, I intend to divide the Committee.
Robert Key
, Salisbury
I shall explain the procedure. I cannot understand why hon. Members should wish to have an affirmative resolution each time that it is necessary to make some minor technical change to the definition of domestic property in England, Scotland or Wales, or to prescribe that a property which stands in more than one area shall, for the purposes of valuation, be deemed to stand within a single, specified area. I accept that the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) was focusing largely on the regulations to be made under Clause 3(3), which prescribes the assumptions and principles on which the valuation is to be carried out.
These are important matters, but they do not warrant the affirmative resolution procedure. That is because the underlying principle of the valuation, the banding of domestic property, is in the Bill. The regulations about assumptions are subject to negative resolution, following the precedent for similar regulations for non-domestic rating made under paragraph 2(8) of schedule 6 to the Local Government Finance Act 1988. Therefore, this is not something new and untried. I assure the Committee that there is no question of wishing to minimise the influence of Parliament. As I have said, these are technical matters and the negative resolution procedures are the most appropriate way for them to be dealt with.
Mr Dick Douglas
, Dunfermline West
In the light of that extremely unsatisfactory reply, I shall press the Amendment to a vote.
| Division No. 171] | [10.28 |
| AYES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Haynes, Frank |
| Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley, N.) | Hinchliffe, David |
| Allen, Graham | Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth) |
| Alton, David | Home Robertson, John |
| Archer, Rt Hon Peter | Howells, Geraint |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Hughes, John (Coventry NE) |
| Ashley, Rt Hon Jack | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Ashton, Joe | Hughes, Roy (Newport E) |
| Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE) | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Barnes, Mrs Rosie (Greenwich) | Illsley, Eric |
| Barron, Kevin | Ingram, Adam |
| Battle, John | Jones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside) |
| Beckett, Margaret | Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S W) |
| Beith, A. J. | Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald |
| Bell, Stuart | Lambie, David |
| Bellotti, David | Lamond, James |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Leadbitter, Ted |
| Blair, Tony | Leighton, Ron |
| Blunkett. David | Lewis, Terry |
| Boateng, Paul | Litherland, Robert |
| Boyes, Roland | Livingstone, Ken |
| Bradley, Keith | Livsey, Richard |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) |
| Brown, Nicholas (Newcastle E) | Loyden, Eddie |
| Brown, Ron (Edinburgh Leith) | McAllion, John |
| Caborn, Richard | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Callaghan, Jim | Macdonald, Calum A. |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | McFall, John |
| Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley) | McKay, Allen (Barnsley West) |
| Canavan, Dennis | McKelvey, William |
| Carlile, Alex (Mont'g) | McMaster, Gordon |
| Carr, Michael | McWilliam, John |
| Clark, Dr David (S Shields) | Madden, Max |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Mahon, Mrs Alice |
| Clelland, David | Marek, Dr John |
| Cohen, Harry | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Cryer, Bob | Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) |
| Cummings, John | Martlew, Eric |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Meale, Alan |
| Dalyell, Tam | Michael, Alun |
| Darling, Alistair | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) | Michie, Mrs Ray (Arg'l & Bute) |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'I) | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Dewar, Donald | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Dixon, Don | Morley, Elliot |
| Dobson, Frank | Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) |
| Douglas, Dick | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Duffy, A. E. P. | Murphy, Paul |
| Dunnachie, Jimmy | Nellist, Dave |
| Dunwoody, Hon Mrs Gwyneth | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Eastham, Ken | O'Brien, William |
| Edwards, Huw | O'Hara, Edward |
| Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray) | Parry, Robert |
| Fatchett, Derek | Patchett, Terry |
| Faulds, Andrew | Pendry, Tom |
| Fearn, Ronald | Pike, Peter L. |
| Fields, Terry (L'pool B G'n) | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Flynn, Paul | Prescott, John |
| Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Foster, Derek | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Foulkes, George | Redmond, Martin |
| Fraser, John | Reid, Dr John |
| Fyfe, Maria | Richardson, Jo |
| Galbraith, Sam | Robinson, Geoffrey |
| Garrett, John (Norwich South) | Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Rowlands, Ted |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Ruddock, Joan |
| Gordon, Mildred | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Gould, Bryan | Sheerman, Barry |
| Graham, Thomas | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Skinner, Dennis |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Hain, Peter | Smith, C. (Isl'ton & F'bury) |
| Hardy, Peter | Smith, Rt Hon J. (Monk'ds E) |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Smith, J. P. (Vale of Glam) |
| Soley, Clive | Watson, Mike (Glasgow, C) |
| Spearing, Nigel | Welsh, Andrew (Angus E) |
| Steel, Rt Hon Sir David | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Steinberg, Gerry | Williams, Rt Hon Alan |
| Strang, Gavin | Williams, Alan W. (Carm'then) |
| Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) | Winnick, David |
| Taylor, Matthew (Truro) | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Thomas, Dr Dafydd Elis | Worthington, Tony |
| Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck) | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Turner, Dennis | |
| Vaz, Keith | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Wallace, James | Mr. Archy Kirkwood and |
| Wardell, Gareth (Gower) | Mr. Alex Salmond. |
| Wareing, Robert N. | |
| NOES | |
| Adley, Robert | Dicks, Terry |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Dorrell, Stephen |
| Alexander, Richard | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Dover, Den |
| Allason, Rupert | Dunn, Bob |
| Amess, David | Dykes, Hugh |
| Amos, Alan | Eggar, Tim |
| Arbuthnot, James | Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd) |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas | Fairbairn, Sir Nicholas |
| Ashby, David | Fallon, Michael |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Favell, Tony |
| Atkins, Robert | Fenner, Dame Peggy |
| Atkinson, David | Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Finsberg, Sir Geoffrey |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N) | Fishburn, John Dudley |
| Batiste, Spencer | Fookes, Dame Janet |
| Beggs, Roy | Forman, Nigel |
| Bellingham, Henry | Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) |
| Bendall, Vivian | Forth, Eric |
| Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Fox, Sir Marcus |
| Blackburn, Dr John G. | Franks, Cecil |
| Blaker, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Freeman, Roger |
| Body, Sir Richard | French, Douglas |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Fry, Peter |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Gale, Roger |
| Boswell, Tim | Gardiner, Sir George |
| Bowden, A. (Brighton K'pto'n) | Gill, Christopher |
| Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) | Gilmour, Rt Hon Sir Ian |
| Bowis, John | Glyn, Dr Sir Alan |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir Rhodes | Goodhart, Sir Philip |
| Brandon-Bravo, Martin | Goodlad, Alastair |
| Brazier, Julian | Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles |
| Bright, Graham | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Grant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW) |
| Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's) | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Bruce, Ian (Dorset South) | Greenway, John (Ryedale) |
| Buchanan-Smith, Rt Hon Alick | Gregory, Conal |
| Buck, Sir Antony | Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N) |
| Butcher, John | Grist, Ian |
| Butler, Chris | Ground, Patrick |
| Butterfill, John | Grylls, Michael |
| Carlisle, John, (Luton N) | Hague, William |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Hamilton, Hon Archie (Epsom) |
| Carrington, Matthew | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Carttiss, Michael | Hanley, Jeremy |
| Cash, William | Hannam, John |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn) |
| Chapman, Sydney | Harris, David |
| Churchill, Mr | Hawkins, Christopher |
| Clark, Rt Hon Alan (Plymouth) | Hayes, Jerry |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Hayward, Robert |
| Clark, Rt Hon Sir William | Heathcoat-Amory, David |
| Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe) | Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE) |
| Colvin, Michael | Hicks, Robert (Cornwall SE) |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest) | Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L. |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Hill, James |
| Cope, Rt Hon John | Hind, Kenneth |
| Couchman, James | Holt, Richard |
| Cran, James | Hordern, Sir Peter |
| Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g) | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Howarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A) |
| Day, Stephen | Howarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd) |
| Dickens, Geoffrey | Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) |
| Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W) | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Hunter, Andrew | Portillo, Michael |
| Irvine, Michael | Powell, William (Corby) |
| Jack, Michael | Price, Sir David |
| Janman, Tim | Raison, Rt Hon Sir Timothy |
| Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey | Redwood, John |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Riddick, Graham |
| Jones, Robert B (Herts W) | Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm |
| Jopling, Rt Hon Michael | Roberts, Sir Wyn (Conwy) |
| Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine | Roe, Mrs Marion |
| Key, Robert | Ross, William (Londonderry E) |
| Kilfedder, James | Rost, Peter |
| King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater) | Rowe, Andrew |
| Kirkhope, Timothy | Rumbold, Rt Hon Mrs Angela |
| Knapman, Roger | Sackville, Hon Tom |
| Knight, Greg (Derby North) | Sayeed, Jonathan |
| Knowles, Michael | Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas |
| Knox, David | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') |
| Latham, Michael | Shelton, Sir William |
| Lee, John (Pendle) | Shephard, Mrs G. (Norfolk SW) |
| Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) | Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) |
| Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark | Shersby, Michael |
| Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant) | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) | Soames, Hon Nicholas |
| Lord, Michael | Speller, Tony |
| Luce, Rt Hon Sir Richard | Spicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W) |
| Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Macfarlane, Sir Neil | Squire, Robin |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire) | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Maclean, David | Stevens, Lewis |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Michael | Stewart, Andy (Sherwood) |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick | Stewart, Rt Hon Ian (Herts N) |
| Madel, David | Sumberg, David |
| Malins, Humfrey | Summerson, Hugo |
| Marland, Paul | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Marlow, Tony | Taylor, Teddy (S'end E) |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman |
| Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel) | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Martin, David (Portsmouth S) | Thompson, D. (Calder Valley) |
| Mates, Michael | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Maude, Hon Francis | Thornton, Malcolm |
| Mawhinney, Dr Brian | Thurnham, Peter |
| Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick | Townsend, Cyril D. (B'heath) |
| Mellor, Rt Hon David | Tracey, Richard |
| Meyer, Sir Anthony | Trippier, David |
| Miller, Sir Hal | Trotter, Neville |
| Mills, Iain | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Miscampbell, Norman | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) | Viggers, Peter |
| Mitchell, Sir David | Ward, John |
| Moate, Roger | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Monro, Sir Hector | Watts, John |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Wheeler, Sir John |
| Morris, M (N'hampton S) | Whitney, Ray |
| Moss, Malcolm | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Neale, Sir Gerrard | Wilkinson, John |
| Nelson, Anthony | Wilshire, David |
| Neubert, Sir Michael | Winterton, Mrs Ann |
| Newton, Rt Hon Tony | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Nicholls, Patrick | Wolfson, Mark |
| Nicholson, David (Taunton) | Wood, Timothy |
| Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) | Woodcock, Dr. Mike |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Cranley | Yeo, Tim |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Page, Richard | |
| Paice, James | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Mr. John M. Taylor and |
| Pawsey, James | Mr. Irvine Patrick. |
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
The term "majority" is used in two ways in Parliament. Firstly a Government cannot operate effectively unless it can command a majority in the House of Commons - a majority means winning more than 50% of the votes in a division. Should a Government fail to hold the confidence of the House, it has to hold a General Election. Secondly the term can also be used in an election, where it refers to the margin which the candidate with the most votes has over the candidate coming second. To win a seat a candidate need only have a majority of 1.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.