Trade Unions

Oral Answers to Questions — Health – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 5 March 1991.

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Photo of Mr Dale Campbell-Savours Mr Dale Campbell-Savours , Workington 12:00, 5 March 1991

To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether he has discussed policy matters relating to the NHS with trade unions over the last 12 months.

Photo of Mr William Waldegrave Mr William Waldegrave , Bristol West

Yes, Sir. I met the TUC health services committee earlier today.

Photo of Mr Dale Campbell-Savours Mr Dale Campbell-Savours , Workington

Will the Secretary of State confirm that pay rates for ancillary staff in the NHS are as much as £20 a week less than those paid by local authorities for very similar work? How can that be justified? Instead of squandering taxpayers' money supporting private health schemes, will the right hon. Gentleman, in the offer that he will be making on 22 March to the trade unions, direct a little of that money towards recompensing health service workers for their low pay?

Photo of Mr William Waldegrave Mr William Waldegrave , Bristol West

I should not wish to draw any conclusions about the employment practices of local authorities or the health service from that comparison, but I have made it clear that, within whatever settlement can be afforded this year, we hope to steer some resources towards the lowest paid.

Photo of Mr Ian Bruce Mr Ian Bruce , South Dorset

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the record of the NHS trade unions in not being able to negotiate sensible rates of pay for the lowest earners among their members is a sign that big national pay bargaining systems do not work in the best interests of employees and that the sooner they find more efficient trade unionists to represent them and look to local pay bargaining, the better it will be for everybody?

Photo of Mr William Waldegrave Mr William Waldegrave , Bristol West

I strongly agree with the latter part of the question. Indeed, the figures show that national pay bargains do not produce the best results for employees and that if we could move towards local deals and more flexibility, everyone would benefit, especially the low paid.

Photo of Robin Cook Robin Cook , Livingston

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman in a bipartisan spirit whether, during his discussions on policy this morning with the trade unions, there was an opportunity for them to congratulate him on today's reports that he is resisting an extension of private medical insurance? Will he confirm that the current relief scheme for the elderly has produced a tax hand-out for those who are existing clients, but no increase in the number of pensioners who can afford it, even in the Ribble Valley? Will he now admit that the scheme is wholly irrelevant to the health needs of the elderly, so that we may both go into the next election with a commitment to scrap it?

Photo of Mr William Waldegrave Mr William Waldegrave , Bristol West

That matter did not come up in the interesting talks that I had this morning, but it is true that a large number of trade unions and unionists have sought private health care without needing any incentive to do so.