Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 9:32 pm on 28 February 1991.
I was glad that my hon. Friend the Member for Newport, East (Mr. Hughes) referred to the rugby match in Paris on Saturday. He and I are travelling to the French capital tomorrow. I hope that the wishes of the whole House will be with the Welsh team on Saturday.
The hon. Member for Clwyd, North-West (Sir A. Meyer), whom I count as a personal friend and who has made civilised and thoughtful contributions to debates over the years, will be missed by us all after the next election, whenever that may be. He said that it would be foolish to ignore market forces in regard to the economy of Wales. I assure him and his right hon. and hon. Friends that my hon. Friends and I believe very much in a blend of market forces and public intervention.
The speech of my right hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Mr. Davies) was a tour de force. He analysed the decline in manufacturing industry in the Principality. The Minister of State referred in an intervention to the number of jobs in manufacturing; may I take him back to 1979, a more appropriate date, when there were 315,000 jobs in manufacturing, compared with 249,000 today?
If we had been investing in Wales since 1986 at the same level that we invested in 1979, £1,833 million more would have been invested in the Principality's manufacturing base. When we couple that, as couple it we must, with the fact that regional aid has been reduced from some £290 million to £123 million during the past decade, there is no doubt that our economy is more fragile and more susceptible to the current recession than that of perhaps any other region in Britain. That is why 200 men and women a week are being put out of work in Wales. That is why HTV and the BBC are to sack 500 men and women during the next few months. I hope that the Secretary of State will take the matter up with HTV and the BBC, because it will have tremendous implications for broadcasting in the Principality.
As well as those who are unemployed, we must consider those who are in work in the Principality. When we compare the figures for 1979 with those for 1990, we see that 24,000 fewer people are now in work in the Principality. Wales needs more manufacturing and investment, particularly investment in our greatest asset, our young men and women. We have heard some superb speeches today from my hon. Friends the Members for Gower (Mr. Wardell), for Ogmore (Mr. Powell) and for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr. Rowlands), all of whom referred to the fact that we are wasting the talents of our young people in Wales, and that is unforgivable.
The Secretary of State rightly referred to the link between Wales and the German land of Baden Wurttemberg. If that link meant anything, he would go there to see how the Germans train their young people. If we in Wales did only a fraction of what the Germans do, our training would be in a much better position. We have had nothing but schemes, each dafter than the one before. The TECs are in no way representative of our communities. My hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore made a powerful speech on the initiative in his constituency. A Labour Government will retain the TECs, but we shall make the boards of those bodies much more representative of the communities.
Our training agency budget has been halved from £10 million to £5 million. There has been a 40 per cent. cut in YTS and a 15 per cent. cut in employment training. That is why our proposals for "Skills Wales"—for better qualifications to go with the training, for the end of compulsion and for us to give the highest possible regard to the training of our young people—will be high on the agenda in the forthcoming general election. It might well be 2 May, as has been said, but whenever it is, training will play an important part in our election campaign.
My hon. Friends the Members for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones) and for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) both referred to local government and the vital role of council services in Wales. When my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Aberavon (Mr. Morris) was Secretary of State for Wales in 1979 and my hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside was a Minister, thousands of houses were built. Recreation and leisure centres sprang up all over the Principality. Warden schemes were built for our old people. There were more than 30 in my constituency. Our schools had proper books and equipment.
More than a decade later, after 50 Acts of Parliament which have done nothing but undermine local government in Wales, morale in our Welsh councils is low. They are blamed for everything. Hundreds of local authority officers have been banned from taking part in local government and in politics as a result—local government legislation and councillors' allowances are thoroughly inadequate. Above all, local government in Wales has been underfunded. If the rate support grant had been kept at the level of the late 1970s, an additional amount of nearly £2,000 million would have come into the coffers of Welsh districts and counties.
The hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley) and my hon. Friend the Member for Newport, East referred, quite rightly, to the poll tax as it affects Wales. Wales never wanted that tax. A great majority of the Welsh people voted against it at the last general election. The churches, the local authorities and most voluntary organisations are appalled at its unfairness and injustice. We do not know what will happen to it, although we are given to believe that in the Conservative party there is a rearguard action to keep it. The transitional arrangements—the latest version, which the Secretary of State has said is intended to help the people of Wales—is so dotty, so inept, that in parts of Wales the richest will gain even more, and the poorest will get even less.
The Government wish to replace the poll tax with something that we have described as a bed-and-breakfast tax. So far as we can tell, it will be a combination of a property tax and the poll tax—probably the worst of both worlds. It seems to me that the consultation exercise that the Secretary of State for Wales and the Secretary of State for the Environment have asked for will be wholly pointless unless the Government, in the very first instance, make a commitment to do away with the poll tax. The majority of Conservative Members, for electoral reasons, are urging them to do just that, but so far without success. Why should we help them out of their miserable plight when, finally, we have our own plans worked out?
I can tell the hon. Member for Caernarfon that our fair rates scheme will take into account the ability to pay. There will be proper rebates. The hon. Gentleman knows as soon, as the Labour Government occupy the offices in Whitehall and the Welsh Office, we shall regard it as very important to ensure——