Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 9:40 pm on 23 November 1989.
Mr Alf Morris
, Manchester Wythenshawe
9:40,
23 November 1989
This debate is about the deep sense of injustice and distress felt by more than 53,000 war widows, many of whom live in poverty and on means-tested benefits or charitable help. Often the most needful are prevented from seeking such help by their pride. Instead of having to beg for assistance, they crave the dignity of a basic income as of right. Their poverty is demeaning to them and shaming to us all.
Their husbands were, for the most part, killed in the two world wars and they want this House to secure equality of incomes and status for them with the widows of men killed in the conflicts of Northern Ireland and the Falklands. As of now, the widow of a private soldier killed in the Falklands receives more than £124 a week, while the widow of a private killed in the second world war gets less than £57.
In their letter to The Times yesterday, the six surviving ex-chiefs of the defence staff and three former chiefs of the air staff described that sharp difference in entitlements as "cruel" and "unjust", and strongly condemned the Division of war widows into first and second-class citizens. Most people will think that their language is not too strong to describe the plight of elderly women who, having been widowed while they were young, live in poverty now they are old.
The former chiefs' letter will be widely contrasted with the Earl of Arran's recent ministerial statement in Another place when, referring to the debt of gratitude we owe to those who died in the two world wars, he said that the Government considered that the debt was adequately reflected in the preferential treatment given to war widows under the DSS scheme.
During a debate members of the House of Commons traditionally refer to the House of Lords as 'another place' or 'the other place'.
Peers return the gesture when they speak of the Commons in the same way.
This arcane form of address is something the Labour Government has been reviewing as part of its programme to modernise the Houses of Parliament.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
