First Day's Debate

Part of Defence Estimates – in the House of Commons at 4:39 pm on 18 October 1989.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr Martin O'Neill Mr Martin O'Neill Shadow Secretary of State 4:39, 18 October 1989

Yes. The right hon. Gentleman may wish to check against delivery, but the press release said that some in the Labour party were trying to make political capital out of these deaths. We resent that. We deplore these deaths. They are the work of ruthless fanatics with whom no democrat can have common cause. Those hon. Members who seek to consort with them or their allies deserve our contempt. The Labour Opposition join all who seek to console the grieving and give our full support to those who are pursuing these despicable murderers.

These tragedies have underlined the problems, especially for the British Army of the Rhine, of making every base and military establishment secure. Our troops in West Germany are there for long periods, so it is desirable that their families are able to stay with them in an environment that strikes the right balance between military and civilian life.

Things are different in the United Kingdom. There are no soft targets. The atrocity at Deal might have been avoided if, for example, fencing had been constructed on time. The ifs are endless. The presence of some private security firms at gates and on perimeter duty gives a clear sign to terrorists that part of the security is the responsibility of people who do not have access to arms, and who have only a minimum of training and often only the slimmest of commitments to the job.

The desire to free service personnel for more important and satisfying tasks commensurate with their training is understandable. However, if the work were undertaken by firms that operate proper vetting procedures, pay decent wages, take time to train their staff and can retain them, then their employees could undertake certain duties. However, I am not sure whether it would be as financially attractive for such firms to tender. In the discussions that some of my colleagues in the trade union movement had last week with the Under-Secretary—I have a copy of the outline of the minutes taken by the trade union side— it became apparent that a review was going on.

We recognise that on some contracts that are still in the pipeline, the Government have given commercial undertakings. I hope that we can ensure that no more of these cheapjack firms will be hired and that, when people are sacked from one Department of the Civil Service, they do not reappear in the employ of another some time later.