Standing Order No. 39

– in the House of Commons at 3:57 pm on 16 March 1988.

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Photo of Patrick Cormack Patrick Cormack , South Staffordshire 3:57, 16 March 1988

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I refer to Standing Order No. 39, which states: Mr. Speaker or the chairman may, after the lapse of two minutes if in his opinion the division is unnecessarily claimed, take the vote of the House, or committee, by calling upon the Members who support, and who challenge his decision, successively to rise in their places; and he shall thereupon as he thinks fit, either declare the determination of the House or committee, or name tellers for a division. This is not to be taken in any sense as a criticism of you, Mr. Speaker, or of any occupant of the Chair. On a number of occasions recently, the occupant of the Chair has seen fit to name a Member. When the occupant of the Chair does that, he is, in effect, asking for the support of the House in upholding his authority and the authority of the House.

I respectfully suggest that the Standing Order could be used on those occasions in future to the profit of the House. If the occupant of the Chair were to say simply, "Does the Chair have the support of the House?", hon. Members could then rise, and if they demonstrated by overwhelming numbers that they supported the Chair, the business of the House could proceed.

Photo of Dennis Skinner Dennis Skinner Member, Labour Party National Executive Committee, Vice-Chair, Labour Party

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Standing Order No. 39 used to be Standing Order No. 35 and it was used on rare occasions by Mr. Speaker. It was not used in the way that the hon. Member for Staffordshire, South (Mr. Cormack) described. It was used to allow Mr. Speaker to call a Division when it was possible, with only a few hon. Members in the Chamber, to discern, by counting in the Chamber, that the Division could take place in that fashion. However, when the House is full and Mr. Speaker cannot make that count, to have a Division is nonsense.

You, Mr. Speaker, will recall that, when you were Deputy Chief Whip for the Tory party in opposition, there were occasions when the previous Speaker used that method. On every occasion that it has been used since I have been a Member of Parliament, there have been a relatively small number of Opposition Members willing to take on the Government. It was usually during a sitting that continued throughout the night.

I am not trying to incite you for the future, Mr. Speaker, but that is the only time it can be used, so that the Speaker is absolutely clear that there is only a small number of hon. Members present. If it were to be used in the circumstances that that so-called democrat suggested, the net result would be to close the Division lobbies and just leave it to Mr. Speaker and the hon. Gentleman.

Photo of Mr Bernard Weatherill Mr Bernard Weatherill , Croydon North East

We have a very heavy day ahead of us, and this matter was raised yesterday. The Chair is aware of the various options under Standing Order No. 39, and always takes them into account. I am inclined to the view expressed by the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner).