Orders of the Day — Free Television Licences for Pensioners Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 9:36 am on 16 January 1987.

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Photo of David Winnick David Winnick , Walsall North 9:36, 16 January 1987

That is a rather inadequate way to explain the important concessions made at the time by a Labour Government. It is estimated that in all about 640,000 people pay 5p a year, the large majority of them being retired people and pensioners. In 1965, when there was a combined radio and television licence fee, it was decided that registered blind people should pay £1·25 a year, and this arrangement continued when licensing for radio ended. Clearly there are anomalies because of the differences in the amounts of money payable for the television licence fee.

I should like to take up the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North-East (Mr. Park). The same point was made by the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale. It was that there is a glaring anomaly in that those in warden-controlled accommodation rightly pay 5p a year while others not in such accommodation but in no better personal circumstances have to pay the full amount.

We are often told by constituents who complain to us that they find it difficult to understand and justify such a difference, such an anomaly. Very few hon. Members will not have had that point made to them time and again. In a single block of flats one part may be warden controlled while the other part is not. This anomaly should end and all pensioner households should be exempt from the licence fee.

Understandably, I have received many hundreds of letters about this subject. I apologise to many of the writers of those letters because, although I have been able to reply to some of them, it has been impossible because of the lack of facilities to reply to them all. I am grateful to those who have written in support of my Bill. I am sure that all hon. Gentlemen are grateful for the support that they receive for any public measure that they introduce. We do not sneer in this place at people who take the trouble to write letters. Good luck to them. We live in a democracy, and why should not people express a point of view, either for or against?

Of all the letters that I have received only one has been critical. Because of the pressure of time, I shall mention just one or two of those letters. From the Isle of Wight a pensioner writes that she sacrifices everything to get the money to be able to pay the £58 fee. She says: As I am on my own, my tv is a Godsend. She says that out of an income of £38 a week she has to save weekly for electricity, water, insurance and gas and she says it is a great hardship to pay for things like the licence fee.

No doubt the Minister will say that the money need not be paid in one go. We know that and I do not deny that it is easier to pay by way of weekly or montly instalments. But at the end of the day it is still £58, and this is what the pensioner is complaining about. From Wales a correspondent says that the payment of the licence fee is "something dreaded" and is difficult to find because of other expenses. This person concludes—and I pass the message to the Minister of State: It should be a free vote and there should be no Whips on. I shall return to that point later.

I propose to mention in a moment the Minister of State, Home Office, the right hon. and learned Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Waddington). I had a letter from a pensioner in Preston who says that she lives in a close of 15 bungalows designed for the elderly and the handicapped. Four of the bungalows enjoy the facilities of a warden scheme and receive the concession of 5p a year; the rest pay the full amount. She adds: Nevertheless some of these 11 are just as old, handicapped and near housebound as those paying the 5p I am not sure whether that person is a constituent because I mentioned Preston. Nevertheless, she wrote to the Minister of State, Home Office. I sent him a note to the effect that I would mention this. He replied to this lady and said in his letter: the position cannot reasonably be defended.