Conduct of Police

Part of Orders of the Day — Sexual Offences Bill – in the House of Commons at 11:30 am on 17 May 1985.

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Photo of Mr David Mellor Mr David Mellor , Putney 11:30, 17 May 1985

I shall give way to my hon. Friend in a moment, when I have dealt with the intervention from the hon. Member for Norwood.

The use of uniformed policemen and the existence of a clear law will in many areas be perfectly sufficient to stop the problem. I think that that will almost certainly be the way that most police forces will tackle the problem. It is the way that the Metropolitan police intend to tackle it. A clear assurance was given in a letter that I read in Committee. The Metropolitan police said that they would not use women in plain clothes as decoys in the circumstances that we are discussing.

Where the problem of kerb crawling is so persistent that the presence of uniformed policemen is necessary, doing nothing else but that sort of duty, so that the whole balance of the force in distorted, there may well be a case for plain clothes observation. I have made it clear—and force orders have made it clear—that anything which amounts to the use of an agent provocateur would not be tolerated. A woman provocatively dressed would plainly be outside that rule. However, it is equally clear that if in certain circumstances a woman, dressed normally and behaving unprovocatively, exercises her right to walk down a street as a policewoman and is doing nothing different from what the residents of the streets around would be doing when walking home from work or for some social pursuit, that does not fall within the definition of agent provocateur and is not an incitement to anyone to commit the offence.

As I have already made clear, there will be circumstances in which police officers alone will give evidence. If there is a complainant, the police will have to give evidence as to why the person accosted has not come to court to give evidence. That is already provided for in force orders relating to male importuning, and similar provision will also be made for the offence of kerb crawling.

I should have thought that for the most part it would be difficult for prosecutions to proceed without the co-operation of the woman concerned. In those circumstances where prosecutions take place, I am not prepared to say that in any but the small minority of cases we cannot have faith in the police to do their work properly. I recognise that there is always a problem in relation to police powers.

I am reluctant to advise Parliament to take a view that is based on the assumption that the uncorroborated evidence of police officers cannot be satisfactory. We have a well-motivated police force. As the hon. Member for Norwood knows from his work in Brixton, every effort is being made to ensure that there are in the police men of the greatest integrity. I think that they can be trusted to enforce the law on kerb crawling. The alternative of not having a law has become unthinkable, given the scale of the problem.