Northern Ireland (Local Elections)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 7:31 pm on 7 March 1985.

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Photo of Stuart Bell Stuart Bell , Middlesbrough 7:31, 7 March 1985

It is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Molyneaux) I listened with great interest to his arguments and to the various speeches that have been made. I felt rather like the bull fighter in a couple of lines of Spanish poetry which John Kennedy liked very much: Bull-fight critics ranked in rows fill the arena full.But only one is there who knows—and he's the one who fights the bull. I am not entirely sure who it is who has been fighting the bull, whether it is the Minister or the right hon. Members for South Down (Mr. Powell) and for Lagan Valley and the hon. Members for Londonderry, East (Mr. Ross), for Strangford (Mr. Taylor), for Upper Bann (Mr. McCusker), for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson) and for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley). I do know, however, that I am certainly the critic in what was a solitary row, but I am very glad to be joined by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Warley, West (Mr. Archer).

I want to congratulate the Minister, as I have in the past, on the careful and articulate way in which he has taken the House through the terms of the order. He described it as safeguarding the integrity of the electoral process and said that this obliged him to give a lengthy and technical description of the order. The House and I are grateful to him for that, even though the right hon. Member for South Down differed with the Minister on the aims of the order.

The Minister said that the aims of the order were to bring to bear in local government elections in Northern Ireland measures which Parliament has agreed should govern elections to this House. I would have thought that that would be very welcome to right hon. and hon. Members from Northern Ireland. The second strand of the Minister's thinking was that this order would bring the election rules more closely into line with the rules governing local government elections on this side of the water.

I am grateful for the pat on the back, in metaphorical terms, from the right hon. Member for South Down. He quite rightly told the House that it was pressure from Her Majesty's Opposition that led to the acceptance by the Government of the principle that the electors of Northern Ireland are entitled to be governed by the same electoral law as the rest of the United Kingdom.

The right hon. Member for South Down also gave his view that the order perpetuates the application to local government elections of the system of proportional representation. That theme has been taken up by several hon. Members. The right hon. Member for South Down described it as a disjunction which he thought was unjustifiable. We saw a dichotomy on the part of the Ulster Unionists—on the one hand welcoming and encouraging election laws which are the same as those in this country and on the other hand complaining, justifiably in their view, that they are always treated differently. This is a point of view that came up time and time again in the speeches made.

I nearly intervened in the speech of the hon. Member for Londonderry, East when he asked the Minister whether he was speaking on behalf of the Northern Ireland Office or Her Majesty's Government. I would have thought that in the eyes of most Ulster Unionists they were one and indivisible. It shows the difficulty they have in disentangling their thinking in relation to the electoral laws of our country as they relate also to Northern Ireland.

The Opposition welcome this order, as they welcomed the original Bill. The main provisions of the order substitute new election rules for the rules in the Electoral Law (Northern Ireland) Act 1962 and correspond to sections 1 and 2 of the Elections (Northern Ireland) Act 1985 — that is, to prevent personation. The order also makes a number of other changes which should be noted and which we welcome.

One relates to postal voting, and the 10th annual report of the Standing Advisory Commission on Human Rights points out that provisions with regard to postal votes in Northern Ireland differ for general elections, assembly elections and local elections. This is clearly unsatisfactory and confusing. The order brings the provisions for local elections into line with those for general elections. That is to be welcomed. The advisory commission has recommended that there should be a standing list of postal voters for use in all elections. It has also recommended that postal voting on the grounds of change of residence should be reintroduced, pointing out that the numbers involved represent only about 2 per cent. of the total number of applications made. A number of cases have already been brought to the commission's attention involving moves from Derry to Belfast which makes it impracticable to vote at the old address.

We have heard some discussion tonight of the time at which polling booths close. In a democracy it must be in the interest of all those who wish to vote to have as long as possible in which to do so. I have stood in elections and I can recollect taking someone to the polling booth as late as a quarter to ten at night. We rushed him in and he was the last person to vote. When we brought him out my wife asked me if I was thinking what she was thinking, and we agreed that we thought that he had voted Conservative. Nevertheless, the principle remains that, the longer there is for people to vote, the more democratic it must be.

We therefore support the order. I have listened with great interest to the debate. I learn as I go along in this post of mine. I have learned to admire the way in which an order before the House can be widened and deepened to cover proportional representation, Sinn Fein, flags, crowns and half-crowns. It is very democratic. It is also nice to see the depth and the technicality of these debates. I am sure that the House is a better place for them and I am sure that Northern Ireland will be a better place when this order becomes law.