Orders of the Day — Unborn Children (Protection) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 10:11 am on 15 February 1985.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Ms Jo Richardson Ms Jo Richardson , Barking 10:11, 15 February 1985

If the hon. Gentleman will be patient, I shall come to that.

We are repeatedly told that 2 million people have signed petitions opposing all experimentation. I do not dispute the figures, though I have in mind a picture of organisations—I do not know who or what they are—in back offices totting up the totals. This morning we heard about petitions containing thousands of signatures and, as I say, I do not dispute the figures. However, I am willing to bet that few of the signatories—and I do not doubt their sincerity in signing—were given all the facts and had all the beneficial effects explained to them.

Like other hon. Members, I have discussed this matter with groups of people in my constituency and elsewhere. Their mental picture of experiments, I found, was of doctors and technicians chopping away at perfectly formed miniatures the size of tadpoles. Of course that idea revolted them, just as it revolts me. When I explained to them that an embryo was one of 1,000 or even 100,000, the rest of which died anyway, and that it was at day one smaller than the point of a pin and invisible to the naked eye, they were nonplussed.

I am not suggesting that size necessarily affects the argument if one believes that, from day one, the embryo —or the conceptus, which is the correct word to use—should have the protection of the law. I am sure, however, that many of those honest signatories might have taken a different view if the picture had not been painted for them of evil scientists chopping up little babies, because that impression has been given.

I prefer to take not just the emotive views of people but the informed view, for example, of the National Federation of Women's Institutes. That body took the trouble to debate at its county federations the issues arising from Warnock. They represent about 350,000 women of all denominations and political views, and 51 of the 70 federations presented their views. Those views were divided, some being on one side, others being disturbed by some issues raised by Warnock and others being concerned with other matters in Warnock. However, on in vitro fertilisation, they agreed that IVF and artificial insemination by husbands should be available, subject to the controls proposed by the Warnock Committee. Regarding research on human embryos, they were almost unanimously repelled by the idea of research, but they were divided on the nature of any future policy. They therefore reluctantly agree with the Warnock Committee recommendation that research on human embryos should be permitted only under licence, up to the fourteenth day after fertilisation." That is a sane and sensible point of view to hold.