Miss Hilda Murrell (Murder)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 4:15 am on 19 December 1984.

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Photo of Mr Paddy Ashdown Mr Paddy Ashdown , Yeovil 4:15, 19 December 1984

All hon. Members will have listened with a great deal of concern and a degree of admiration to the speech of the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell). He is well known in the House and performs a great service by introducing deeply and carefully researched questions of this kind. He brings them forward with a great deal of courage and conviction.

Commander Bob Green is a member of the Liberal association in my constituency. I have known him for some time. The details brought forward in the speech of the hon. Member for Linlithgow were totally unknown to me until last night he did me the courtesy of allowing me to read his speech. One does not necessarily have to agree with the conclusions that the hon. Member has reached to recognise fully the serious nature of the questions he has rightly put and which need to be answered.

First let me deal with some of the facts. I have not carried out detailed research into the facts put forward by the hon. Member. However, I have the highest respect for Commander Bob Green. I asked the hon. Member if I could ring Commander Green and read his speech to him. The hon. Member allowed me to do so. Therefore, I rang Commander Green and read to him the speech of the hon. Member. I have his authority to say that he confirms and corroborates all that the hon. Member has said. The details and facts are precisely as Commander Green sees them. Where the hon. Member has referred to Commander Green, Commander Green assures me that he agrees with the hon. Member's references.

It is also fair and proper to make the point that Commander Green has in no way collaborated with the hon. Member for Linlithgow in drawing up his speech. What the hon. Member has done is entirely on his own behalf. Commander Green has had no contact whatsoever with the hon. Member. Therefore, the comments that the hon. Member was kind enough to make about the part played by Commander Green are entirely substantiated. The facts that the hon. Member has given and the conclusions he has drawn accord precisely with those of Commander Green. In no way can it be said that the hon. Member for Linlithgow has taken the name of Commander Green in vain.

I turn from the facts of the matter to the conclusions that the hon. Member has reached. They are the hon. Member's own conclusions. However, I fully understand, as will those who tomorrow read this text with some interest, how the conclusions the hon. Member has drawn are capable of being supported by the questions that he has asked. In that sense, his conclusions and questions are far too serious to be dismissed lightly. I have observed on many occasions in the past, even when the hon. Member for Linlithgow has asked questions with which I do not agree, that from time to time the Government have used, as the hon. Member mentioned in his speech, a degree of ridicule in order to dismiss them. That would be wholly inappropriate on this occasion and I am certain that the Minister will not attempt to do so. These are very important questions of fact and detail. I very much hope that the Minister will answer them. If he is unable to answer all of these questions now, no doubt he will give answers in detail my means of letter.

In the absence of detailed answers to the detailed questions which the hon. Member for Linlithgow has put, I believe that there is only one way forward: a full inquiry in front of a High Court judge. I hope that other hon. Members will support that kind of inquiry. We do not call at this stage for such an inquiry. We merely say that if the Minister is unable or unwilling to answer questions of fact in detail, that is the only proper way forward.

I hope that the Minister will recognise that the conclusions drawn by the hon. Member for Linlithgow are deep and serious. Most of the evidence suggests that they are possibilities. I hope that the Minister will be able to dismiss them unequivocally. The hon. Member used the word "solemn". It is an unhappy fact that a number of the Government's actions, including those following the Belgrano incident, have done much to raise suspicions among those of us who would like to support the Government in the difficult decisions that they had to take in time of war. The hon. Gentleman and I may part company over the Belgrano issue, because Governments often have to take extremely difficult decisions in time of war and they are entitled to the support of the democratic process, expressed through the House — even if the decisions prove in the cold light of day to have been wrong. The one case in which the Government would not be entitled to the support of the House and the country would be if they had acted with the specific intention of saving or assisting their political operations afterwards. We would almost have to get inside the minds of Ministers to discover whether that had happened.

However, the Government's campaign of misinformation on occasions and inadequate answers to questions has kept the Belgrano issue alive and caused suspicion and concern among those of us who would like to be able to support them. We would not like to have such suspicions of any British Government. I hope that the Minister will deal unequivocally with the conclusions drawn by the hon. Member for Linlithgow, so that the matter is not allowed to rumble on. The Minister has a duty to do that.

The hon. Member for Linlithgow touched on the broader issue of the intelligence services. My party and I have always pressed the need for a Select Committee of Privy Councillors to deal with intelligence matters. The intelligence services are not sufficiently accountable to the House. The mechanism for such accountability needs to be chosen carefully. For reasons that the hon. Gentleman mentioned, my party has always believed that there should be a Select Committee of Privy Councillors. It would have been much better if the hon. Member for Linlithgow had been able to take his case to such a Committee in private, rather than being forced to raise the matter on the Floor of the House.