Rate Support Grant (Scotland)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 6:45 pm on 31 January 1984.

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Photo of Michael Ancram Michael Ancram Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Scottish Office) 6:45, 31 January 1984

If I have misquoted the hon. Gentleman, I apologise; but I think it is worth pointing out—and this can be demonstrated from the figures that I have just given— that looking at the raw figures is no way of assuring that the answers one gets from them are correct. What the hon. Gentleman has just said tends to underline that.

I shall deal briefly with one or two of the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries. He knows, I think, that the distribution system introduced this year has been damped—and my right hon. Friend said this in his opening remarks — in order to protect those who might have lost most from having too great a change in their budgets in one year. I am sure that he would appreciate, from his time in local government, that one of the essentials in local government budgeting is to be able to assume a degree of stability over a period of time that will allow forward planning. For that reason, we agreed in our discussions with COSLA that the damping effect that we have introduced on the distribution system this year would occur. It is from that, I think, that his complaint arises. I think he understands, too, that had we not changed the distribution system and introduced the client approach this year, his regional authority would have received less in cash than it is receiving now. He may not be satisfied with what it is receiving now because, had we not damped, it would be rather more.

It is the same in the case of the hon. Member for Roxborough and Berwickshire (Mr. Kirkwood). At the same time, I hope that he will point out to his regional authority, before it complains too much about the new system, that, had we not introduced it, it would have received less cash in grant support this year under the old system than it is receiving even under the damped system at present.

One of the important facets of the client group approach is that it is capable of being refined. There are primary indicators on which one makes the first calculations, and one can then adjust them by applying secondary indicators. The best example I can give my hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries, in terms of his own region, is in education. The primary indicator may be the number of children. As against that, the sparsity in the number of schools, because my hon. Friend is in a rural area, would be taken into account as a secondary indicator. Rural considerations are, therefore, taken into account. I accept that the system is capable of further refinement, and COSLA and my Department are prepared to look at it again in future.