Orders of the Day — Ordnance Factories and Military Services Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 4:19 pm on 16 January 1984.

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Photo of Mr Denzil Davies Mr Denzil Davies , Llanelli 4:19, 16 January 1984

I beg to move, to leave out from "That" to the end of the Question and to add instead thereof: this House declines to give a Second Reading to a Bill which sells off the nationally owned royal ordnance factories whose workers and products have made a major contribution to the security of the United Kingdom over the years, transfers essential defence assets to firms whose dedication and loyalty cannot be guaranteed and whose efficiency is impaired by the quest for profit in preference to the national interest, and thereby endangers the defence of the United Kingdom. The Minister has seemed to suggest that the amendment in my name and the names of my right hon. and hon. Friends impugns the patriotism of those who work on defence matters in private companies. It does not do so. However, patriotism is not the ultimate concern of private companies. Their objective is to make a private profit. Very often, they will do so even at the expense of patriotism and of the national interest. If the Minister does not understand that, he knows nothing about company law or human nature.

The Minister was wise not to try to defend the Bill. We had the ritual but rather muted incantation at the beginning of the words "commerciality" and "productivity". We had the usual knockabout stuff at the end. He wisely hid himself behind the prose—if it can be called that—of the Government Actuary and his civil servants. The Minister went into great detail—we accept that that was necessary — about the terms and conditions for the employees.

On Second Reading one would expect the Minister to argue the case for the privatisation of these ordnance factories. He did not do so, and he was wise, as he knows, not to. The Bill is yet another in the Government's long but rather muddled and confused quest for privatisation. We believe that it is probably the most irresponsible, damaging and indefensible Bill that the Government have introduced during the past four or five years.

Whatever general arguments there may be for privatisation, and whatever the principles may be—the Opposition believe that they are pretty thin — they cannot be applied to the royal ordnance factories with any validity or conviction. As the Minister knows well, the factories, their employees and management have proved themselves—to use the Government's words—extremely commercial, competitive and productive. They should be left alone, instead of being subject to Tory ideology, to carry on with the job that they have done so well for a long time, of providing ordnance and equipment for the armed forces of the highest quality and standard.

I believe that there is a more fundamental objection to the Bill over and above our objection to privatisation. We believe that it is damaging to Great Britain's defence that factories that produce basic and vital products for the armed forces should end in the hands of private companies. Whatever the Minister may think, under the legislation private companies are there for private profit. At the end of the day, they will sacrifice, because they have to, the national interest for the profit of their shareholders.