Welsh Affairs

Orders of the Day — Telecommunications Bill – in the House of Commons at 1:25 am on 14 December 1983.

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Motion made, and Question proposed,That Mr. Robert Harvey, Mr. Tom Hooson, Mr. F'eter Hubbard-Miles, Mr. Gwilym Jones, Dr. John Marek, Sir Anthony Meyer, Mr. Keith Raffan, Mr. Stefan Terlezki, Dr. Roger Thomas, Mr. Gareth-Wardell and Mr. Dafydd Wigley he members of the Welsh Affairs Committee. — [Sir Philip Holland, on behalf of the Committee of Selection.]

Amendment proposed to the Question, pursuant to the Order [12 December], leave out 'Mr. Robert Harvey'. —[Mr. Beith.]

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 25, Noes 112.

Divison No. 105][1.44 am
AYES
Beith, A. J.Maxton, John
Bruce, MalcolmOwen, Rt Hon Dr David
Carlile, Alexander (Montg'y)Parry, Robert
Foulkes, GeorgePenhaligon, David
Freud, ClementPowell, Raymond (Ogmore)
Home Robertson, JohnRoss, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Howells, GeraintSmith, Rt Hon J. (M'kl'ds B)
Hughes, Simon (Southwark)Steel, Rt Hon David
Johnston, RussellThomas, Dafydd (Merioneth)
Kennedy, CharlesWallace, James
Kirkwood, Archibald
Lewis, Ron (Carlisle)Tellers for the Ayes:
Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)Mr. Michael Meadowcroft and Mr. Dafydd Wigley.
Maclennan, Robert
Marek, Dr John
NOES
Ashby, DavidMacKay, Andrew (Berkshire)
Atkins, Rt Hon Sir H.Maclean, David John.
Baldry, AnthonyMcNair-Wilson, M. (N'bury)
Batiste, SpencerMcWilliam, John
Beggs, RoyMaginnis, Ken
Best, KeithMajor, John
Biggs-Davison, Sir JohnMalone, Gerald
Boscawen, Hon RobertMates, Michael
Bottomley, PeterMather, Carol
Bright, GrahamMaxwell-Hyslop, Robin
Burt, AlistairMiller, Hal (B'grove)
Campbell-Savours, DaleMolyneaux, Rt Hon James
Carttiss, MichaelNeubert, Michael
Churchill, W. S.Newton, Tony
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)Nicholls, Patrick
Clegg, SirWalterNicholson, J.
Cocks, Rt Hon M. (Bristol S.)Osborn, Sir John
Conway, DerekOttaway, Richard
Cope, JohnPage, Richard (Herts SW)
Couchman, JamesPaisley, Rev Ian
Cowans, HarryParris, Matthew
Currie, Mrs EdwinaPawsey, James
Dixon, DonaldPeacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Dykes, HughPowell, Rt Hon J. E. (S Down)
Emery, Sir PeterPowley, John
Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim)Proctor, K. Harvey
Fox, MarcusRathbone, Tim
Garel-Jones, TristanRoss, Wm. (Londonderry)
Goodlad, AlastairRowe, Andrew
Gorst, JohnRyder, Richard
Greenway, HarrySainsbury, Hon Timothy
Hamilton, Hon A. (Epsom)Sayeed, Jonathan
Hanley, JeremySims, Roger
Harrison, Rt Hon WalterSkinner, Dennis
Haselhurst, AlanSmyth, Rev W. M. (Belfast S)
Haynes, FrankSoames, Hon Nicholas
Hayward, RobertSpeed, Keith
Henderson, BarrySpence, John
Hickmet, RichardSpencer, D.
Hind, KennethStern, Michael
Hirst, MichaelStevens, Lewis (Nuneaton)
Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm)Stewart, Andrew (Sherwood)
Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth)Stradling Thomas, J.
Holland, Sir Philip (Gedling)Terlezki, Stefan
Howarth, Gerald (Cannock)Thompson, Patrick (N'ich N)
Hunt, David (Wirral)Thorne, Neil (Ilford S)
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)Thurnham, Peter
Knight, Gregory (Derby N)van Straubenzee, SirW.
Knowles, MichaelWakeham, Rt Hon John
Lang, IanWardle, C. (Bexhill)
Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh)Warren, Kenneth
Lilley, PeterWatts, John
Lord, MichaelWheeler, John
Loyden, EdwardWood, Timothy
Lyell, Nicholas
McCusker, HaroldTellers for the Noes:
Macfarlane, NeilSir Anthony Meyer and Mr. Peter Hubbard-Miles.
McKay, Allen (Penistone)

Question accordingly negatived.

Main Question put:—

The House divided: Ayes 102, Noes 19.

Division No. 106][1.55 am
AYES
Ashby, DavidCarttiss, Michael
Atkins, Rt Hon Sir H.Churchill, W. S.
Baldry, AnthonyClark, Dr Michael (Rochford)
Batiste, SpencerCocks, Rt Hon M. (Bristol S.)
Beggs, RoyConway, Derek
Best, KeithCope, John
Biffen, Rt Hon JohnCouchman, James
Biggs-Davison, Sir JohnCowans, Harry
Boscawen, Hon RobertCurrie, Mrs Edwina
Bottomley, PeterDixon, Donald
Bright, GrahamForsythe, Clifford (S Antrim)
Burt, AlistairFox, Marcus
Campbell-Savours, DaleGarel-Jones, Tristan
Goodlad, AlastairNicholson, J.
Gorst, JohnOttaway, Richard
Hamilton, Hon A. (Epsom)Page, Richard (Herts SW)
Hanley, JeremyPaisley, Rev Ian
Harrison, Rt Hon WalterParry, Robert
Harvey, RobertPawsey, James
Haselhurst, AlanPeacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Haynes, FrankPowell, Rt Hon J. E. (S Down)
Hayward, RobertPowley, John
Henderson, BarryProctor, K. Harvey
Hickmet, RichardRathbone, Tim
Hirst, MichaelRoss, Wm. (Londonderry)
Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm)Rowe, Andrew
Holland, Sir Philip (Gedling)Ryder, Richard
Howarth, Gerald (Cannock)Sainsbury, Hon Timothy
Hunt, David (Wirral)Sayeed, Jonathan
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)Sims, Roger
Knight, Gregory (Derby N)Smyth, Rev W. M. (Belfast S)
Knowles, MichaelSoames, Hon Nicholas
Lang, IanSpence, John
Lilley, PeterSpencer, D.
Lord, MichaelStern, Michael
Loyden, EdwardStevens, Lewis (Nuneaton)
Lyell, NicholasStradling Thomas, J.
McCusker, HaroldTerlezki, Stefan
Macfarlane, NeilThomas, Dafydd (Merioneth)
MacKay, Andrew (Berkshire)Thompson, Donald (Calder V)
Maclean, David John.Thompson, Patrick (N'ich N)
McNair-Wilson, M. (N'bury)Thurnham, Peter
McWilliam, Johnvan Straubenzee, Sir W.
Maginnis, KenWakeham, Rt Hon John
Major, JohnWardle, C. (Bexhill)
Malone, GeraldWarren, Kenneth
Mates, MichaelWatts, John
Mather, CarolWigley, Dafydd
Maxwell-Hyslop, RobinWood, Timothy
Molyneaux, Rt Hon James
Neubert, MichaelTellers for the Ayes:
Newton, TonySir Anthony Meyer and Mr. Peter Hubbard-Miles.
Nicholls, Patrick
NOES
Bruce, MalcolmPatchett, Terry
Carlile, Alexander (Montg'y)Penhaligon, David
Freud, ClementPike, Peter
Howells, GeraintPowell, Raymond (Ogmore)
Hughes, Simon (Southwark)Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Kennedy, CharlesSteel, Rt Hon David
Kirkwood, ArchibaldWallace, James
Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)
Maclennan, RobertTellers for the Noes:
Marek, Dr JohnMr. A. J. Beith and Mr. Russell Johnston.
Meadowcroft, Michael
Owen, Rt Hon Dr David

Question accordingly agreed to.

Ordered,That Mr. Robert Harvey, Mr. Tom Hooson, Mr. Peter Hubbard-Miles, Mr. Gwilym Jones, Dr. John Marek, Sir Anthony Meyer, Mr. Keith Raffan, Mr. Stefan Terlezki, Dr. Roger Thomas, Mr. Gareth Wardell and Mr. Dafydd Wigley be members of the Welsh Affairs Committee.

Photo of Mr David Steel Mr David Steel Leader of the Liberal Party 2:03, 14 December 1983

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. It will be within your recollection and that of the House that a short while ago the Chairman of the Committee of Selection told the House that the matter of appointments to Select Committees was not something in which the Whips should be involved. It will be obvious to all that that was not only wide of the truth but the reverse of it.

Photo of Alan Beith Alan Beith Opposition Whip (Commons)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Before you call the hon Member for Gedling (sir P. Holland), you should know that the Chairman of the Committee of Selection was in the Lobby thanking hon. Members for voting the way that he had claimed he himself would not vote. He stood in the Lobby throughout the preceding Division, thanking hon. Members for being present.

Photo of Mr Philip Holland Mr Philip Holland , Gedling

With permission, Mr. Speaker, I shall answer that allegation.

I was in the Lobby to thank hon. Members who had stayed on a series of private Members' motions. I was in the side where the majority of hon. Members were and I thanked the majority. The Members who were in the other side were there for a very good reason, to promote their own amendment. Therefore, the Members who stayed not to promote an amendment were the ones I had to thank

Photo of Peter Bottomley Peter Bottomley , Eltham

Given the allegation by the Liberal Whip, the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith), the explanation my hon. Friend the Chairman of the Committee of Selection, and the evidence of those hon. Members who were there in the Division Lobby, which the Liberals were not, I think that it would be appropriate for the hon. Member to withdraw his allegation

Photo of Simon Hughes Simon Hughes Shadow Spokesperson (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)

On one matter that the House discussed, the recommendation of the Committee of Selection was supported by a minority, not by the majority who voted. In that instance, surely it would have been appropriate—and I respect the impartiality of the Chairman—that he should have been in the relevant Lobby taking the view that his Committee took. What the hon. Member says, therefore, does not conceal the fact that he had a consistent attitude throughout the debate and it does not support what he now says to the House

Photo of Mr Bernard Weatherill Mr Bernard Weatherill , Croydon North East

None of these are matters for the Chair.