Orders of the Day — Coal Industry Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 10:32 pm on 12 December 1983.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Dennis Skinner Dennis Skinner Member, Labour Party National Executive Committee 10:32, 12 December 1983

I was just testing the water. I do not know whether my hon. Friends can keep this debate going, but the Town and Country Planning Bill, which will come next, could continue for a while.

I am pleased about the fact that many hon. Members have spoken in the debate, which shows that there is much concern in the mining industry at present. One feature of the debate is that not every hon. Member who has spoken represents National Union of Mineworkers' interests. Certainly, one hon. Member represented the deputies' union, and my hon. Friend the Member for Pontefract and Castleford (Mr. Lofthouse) comes from a side of the industry that is close to management, although he is not a member of management. It is significant that some conciliation is beginning to develop among the NUM, the National Association of Colliery Overmen, Deputies and Shotfirers and the British Association of Colliery Managers. That is a welcome sign of strength, which should suggest to the Minister that he is not just dealing with the NUM now.

When pits were closed in the past, especially in the 1950s and 1960s, it was relatively easy to shift people from one region to another. Now, as exemplified by the Herrington closure announced this week, we are talking of people under 50 with no job at all. Not only will people working down the pits and on the pit top be without jobs, but managers, under-managers and many others associated with the higher echelons of management now realise that they cannot be transferred as part of a management development team. Very few management jobs are left, and as a result BACM, the management union, is now allied much more closely with the battle to save the pits.

We have had a series of speeches from Labour Members with an interest in the mining industry —including my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Mr. Eadie), who is secretary of the miners' group of Labour Members—informing the Government that although the coal board needs this money, it is chicken feed compared with the problems faced by the industry.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Mr. Barron) pointed out, in 1982 the industry had £366 million in interest charges hung around its neck before a tonne of coal was dug. It will be more this year, simply because interest rates have not fallen at the same pace as inflation. The gap between 5 per cent. and 9 per cent. still exists, but in some cases money is borrowed at 10, 11 or 12 per cent. As a result, the interest charges on the coal board this year will be greater than in 1982.

Each time the Government talk about "Plan for Coal", a figure of £7,000 million rolls off their tongue. That should be set against the massive amount that must be repaid each year and which was not envisaged at the time of "Plan for Coal". It must also be examined against another form of investment. Since they came to power, the Government have invested £12,000 million abroad rather than invest in the pits to which my hon. Friends have referred. It seems that the figure could be even higher as a result of the lifting of exchange controls.

We are not talking about handing out money to the NCB, the NUM or anyone else. This borrowing powers Bill is all about putting further debts around the coal board's neck. It will mean at least £3 on every tonne of coal produced from the pits that still exist. Each pit will have to pay back £2 million in debt to begin with, despite what we have heard from the Institute of Directors' and estate agents' spokesmen on the Conservative Benches. Remarkably, during the last hour there have been seven or eight speeches by Labour Members but none by Conservative Members—