Telecommunications Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 7:38 pm on 29 March 1983.

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Photo of Mr Stan Orme Mr Stan Orme , Salford West 7:38, 29 March 1983

I shall say something about manning levels later. The Minister referred to scare stories. The staff of BT could be maintained at its present level, or even increased if that is done on a planned basis, if investment is made and if it is allowed to borrow money in the market. BT has made a profit for the past seven years. It has not taken any taxpayers' money during that time. Unfortunately, it must live on its profits and has not had sufficient to invest. If BT were left as a publicly owned monopoly, it would expand. As the Minister said, we are in an expanding market. Rather than take the gamble presented by the Bill, and rather than face a two-headed monster that will be half public and half private, with the uncertainty which that will create, BT should remain in public hands.

On Second Reading and during the 168 hours of debate in Committee, the Opposition made clear their opposition to the Bill. I make no apology for the amount of time taken. We were using parliamentary means to oppose the Bill. Because of the philosophical difference between the Opposition and the Government, there was no way that an accommodation could be reached. The gulf between us is as wide as this Table. The Government may have given a little here and a little there, but the Opposition are wholly opposed to the principles enshrined in the Bill.

During the past few days we have shown that we are opposed to any attempt to privatise BT. It is unnecessary, divisive and against the interests of the community. Because BT is a publicly owned corporation, it is fully accountable to the community for what it does and the way that it does it. The public have statutory rights to consumer watchdogs. There is direct control by Government. We want that control to be strengthened and BT made more accountable. Whatever organisation the Minister intends to set up, it will not be as strong or as effective as POUNC. BT's plans are monitored and important matters that are not concerned only with profit maximisation are built into BT's operation. As a publicly owned corporation, it has essential social and community obligations that are directly linked with the quality of community life.

Underlying all BT's current operations is the belief in providing a national service—one integrated telecommunications network that is publicly owned and operated. All citizens should be entitled to a high standard of telephone service, irrespective of geographical location, social circumstances or whether they are business or residential customers. The philosophy of a national service for all will be severely restricted if BT is privatised.

During the debate on the original clause 3, and the new clause now in the Bill, the Minister went to great lengths to argue that rural services and emergency call services would not be damaged, that the cost of the service would not rise and so on. He went to tremendous lengths to try to prove those points, but he has not proved them to the satisfaction of the House or the country. BT will be in an entirely different ball game. The anxieties that have been expressed by hon. Members on both sides of the House about the rights of consumers, about the rural telephone service and about telephone kiosks in built-up areas such as my constituency in Salford and in London, will be proved well founded. Those services will come under tremendous pressure. Privatisation will lead to the diminution of those services at the expense of the community.

The shareholders will have to be satisfied by the production of a maximum return on their investment. The provision of loss-making services will come under real attack if we are not careful. We shall monitor that carefully if, by some ill fate, the Bill becomes an Act of Parliament and the Government are able to implement it.

The Minister referred to the participation of BT employees as shareholders. Thousands of workers depend on BT for their jobs and futures. About 250,000 workers work directly for BT and tens of thousands more work for equipment suppliers. How many of them can be sure that their jobs are safe? Private forecasts which became public showed that between 35,000 and 40,000 jobs were threatened. It was against that background that we told the Government that jobs were in jeopardy.

The Minister said that we should let employees buy shares. As he knows, there is not a closed shop in BT, but about six trade unions represent about 97 per cent. of its employees. There are management unions and the Union of Communication Workers and the Post Office Engineering Union, which are affiliated to the TUC. All of them oppose what the Government are doing. Our advice to the employees of BT is, "Do not buy shares." Buying shares will not be in their long-term interests. Someone asked whether they could get a majority shareholding. That idea might be attractive to some of the minority parties in the House.

We should consider some of the major industries that the Government have denationalised. What percentage of British Aerospace do the workers there own? The answer is about 3 or 4 per cent. It is impossible for workers in BT to have anything like a controlling shareholding as the floatation will be about £3 billion to £4 billion.