Parliamentary Boundary Commissions

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 9:17 pm on 1 March 1983.

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Mr. Bruce Milan:

In many ways, we have had an interesting although not particularly well attended debate on a matter which is of considerable concern to every hon. Member. I wish to pick out some of the general themes without going too much into the detail. Some of the themes that have featured in hon. Members' speeches are applicable to England, Scotland and Wales, but there are some respects in which the approach of the various Boundary Commissions has been different and in some respects those differences are rather disturbing or perhaps I should say that it is difficult to justify the differences of approach in several different areas.

Naturally, in a debate such as this, a great deal of dissatisfaction has been expressed, particularly about the recommendations of the Boundary Commission for England. However, those will be dealt with in greater detail tomorrow. There has also been some more general dissatisfaction with the procedures, rules and so on of the commission. However, as I said, it is to the general issues that I want to turn.

The first and obvious point to make about the rules is that they are extremely difficult to understand or at least to interpret. In some respects they may even be contradictory. They are not the clearest rules to follow. To some extent, some of the criticism is perhaps a little unfair because we are giving the commissioners difficult rules to interpret.

My second point is that the rules are basically the same for all parts of Great Britain—Scotland, Wales and England. There is, of course, particular provision in the rules about the number of seats for Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. The provision in the rules about the way in which they should be applied to local authority boundaries is rather different in the Scottish case from that in the English case. Indeed, it is a rather looser expression for Scotland than for England. In Scotland, the commissioners must simply have regard to the boundaries of local authority areas. Rule 4, with regard to England and Wales, is rather more precise. In practice, however, I am not sure that that has made a great deal of difference.

Much of the debate has been taken up with the respective importance of rule 4, which deals with local authority boundaries, and rule 5, which deals with achieving equality of numbers, so far as is practicable, between one constituency and another. I state at once that rule 5, which provides that so far as is practicable. having regard to a number of qualifying considerations, constituencies within respective parts of the United Kingdom should have equality of numbers, should be dominant. It is very difficult to understand why we should have a system of boundary review unless it is principally to reduce the disparities in electorates that tend to build up during the year. Why have all the disturbance that these boundary reviews inevitably create, unless it is to achieve a greater equality of electorate between one constituency and another? Local authority boundaries are not drawn up for the sake of parliamentary convenience. Therefore, to try to fit parliamentary seats into local authority boundaries is in many cases difficult and rather unfair and produces inequitable results.

I believe that if one has to make a choice as to which rule should be dominant, it should be rule 5, which requires the greatest possible equity of numbers between one area and another. Rule 5 should have precedence over rule 4. I understand from what the Law Lords have decided on the legal action on the English boundary recommendations that the legal position is that rule 4 has precedence over rule 5. It is not a question of taking them in tandem and giving equal weight to rule 4 and rule 5—the legal position is that rule 4 has precedence over rule 5.

I do not believe that the rules under which we are operating at present are right. They need adjustment. If the legal position is that rule 4 has precedence over rule 5, we should change the legal position. That can be done only by changing the rules. It cannot be done by giving further guidance to the Boundary Commission, as a number of hon. Members suggested. While hon. Members and, indeed, Ministers can say certain things to commissioners, they cannot tell the commissioners to ignore and contradict what we now understand to be the legal position on the interpretation of the rules. If the House wishes there to be greater equality of votes between constituencies, there needs to be a change in the rules. Certainly, the Opposition take that view.

Another disturbing aspect of the reason for the Law Lords decision is one to which my hon. Friend the Member for Goole (Dr. Marshall) drew attention. The Law Lords said that the rules are now so complicated and, in some respects, internally contradictory, that they hardly deserve to be described as rules. They have become guidelines for the Boundary Commissions. That was not intended by the House when the rules were passed in the 1949 Act, and amended in the 1958 Act. Quite apart from the merits of the recent legal action, into which I do not wish to delve this evening, the rules must be examined from that aspect.

If the Boundary Commissions had given greater emphasis to rule 5 rather than to rule 4, the result would have been more equitable than that which we are debating today, and which we shall debate in greater detail later this week. If there had not been such a great dominance of the local authority boundary rule, there would have been a more equitable distribution of constituencies. Therefore, we must examine the rules again.

Another matter that has interested and disturbed me relates to the introductory passages of the three reports for Scotland, England and Wales. Although the commissions were dealing with basically the same rules—and, in some instances, exactly the same rules—they applied different interpretations. Any hon. Member who cares to read all three reports, or at least their introductory passages, will understand that.

I do not wish to discuss the merits of what the total numbers should be in respective countries. That is a matter for Parliament, rather than for Boundary Commission interpretation. As was mentioned by a number of hon. Members today, the English approach to the total numbers has a built-in tendency to increase the numbers at each successive Boundary Commission review. The hon. Member for Chichester (Mr. Nelson) made that point well. It is partly because of mathematics and the way in which that commission interprets the equality rule in England, and partly because, once the number has been increased, it becomes the base for each successive review. The result is that the implied figure for England of 506 in the 1949 rules will, under the present recommendation, rise from 516 to 523. The Boundary Commission for England said that the figures will continue to increase with each successive review. Whether or not that is the correct interpretation of the rules, it is not the interpretation of either the Welsh or Scottish commissions.

The Welsh approach appears to be pragmatic. The commission did not begin with any preconceived ideas of fancy arithmetic, but waited to find a figure at the end of the day. I do not say that in any disparaging manner. The Scottish approach was to decide in advance what the number would be—which was that it would not be changed at all. The decision was made on general grounds of equity, comparing Scotland with England and Wales. Regardless of the merits of that approach, it is entirely different from the approach of the English commission, which has a ratcheting, increasing effect.

If the English report had been applied in Scotland, there would have been an increase of three seats, not one. One can argue the merits of whether, in equity, that is sensible or desirable. At the moment, I am not arguing the merits of the total numbers. The fact remains that there was a difference of approach between the Scottish commission and the English commission.

The ultimate increase in Scotland of one seat arose because the commission, having decided on one approach at the beginning of its review, had to change its mind in the middle because of arguments that some of us advanced in the Glasgow inquiry where an additional seat was recommended by the assistant commissioner. That extra seat was translated into an additional seat for Scotland.

The commission's arguments in favour of an additional seat at the end of the review contradicted its argument for no additional seat at the beginning. I liked the argument at the end rather better than I liked the one at the beginning, but the point is essentially that the three commissions approached total numbers on a different basis. As they were applying the same rules, it is difficult to conclude that all of them must be equally right. I am not opposed to some flexibility, but there are contradictions in the approaches of the three commissions.

There are also contradictions in regard to the interpretation of rule 6, which deals with geographical considerations. The English commission interpreted it to mean that certain areas, for geographical reasons, should have genuinely additional representation. That is another reason for the ratchet approach to increased numbers on each review in England. The Welsh commission, however, decided on two additional seats partly for geographical reasons. It considered the possibility of reducing seats elsewhere but decided against it.

In Scotland, however, the commission took the view that areas such as the Western Isles, where geographical considerations were such that there had to be overrepresentation in numerical terms, would be compensated for by making reductions elsewhere to reach the number of seats that it had decided upon at the beginning of the review. In other words, it talked of a compensatory factor. I objected to the compensatory factor idea because I see nothing in the rules to say that if one gives greater representation to one area for geographical reasons, one must take something off another area. That cannot be a reasonable interpretation of the rule.

However, that is not my basic point. My argument is that the English commission took the view that geographical considerations add to the total number of seats, whereas the Scottish commission felt that geographical considerations involve an adjustment of representation between one part of the country and another. It is difficult to see how both those interpretations of exactly the same rule—rule 6—can possibly be right.

The Scottish commission also seemed to take the view that it was perfectly all right for the major cities to be under-represented. In Glasgow, for example, it argued that the city should have a rather higher average electorate than the electoral quota because the same would happen to Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Dundee. It felt that the four major cities should have a higher electorate than other constituencies.

There is nothing in the rules to say that there should be a general bias towards urban or rural areas, or that there should be a general interpretation of the rules which produces a given result for urban areas on the one hand and rural areas on the other. As far as I am aware, that argument was not used in England or Wales. That is another example of differences of interpretation.

I do not wish to argue which interpretation is correct, but either there is something wrong with the rules—they are not sufficiently precise—or there is something wrong with the procedures of the commissions in that they produce the different interpretations of the rules that I have described. There is a case for the House to re-examine the rules from that point of view, apart from any other consideration.

Several other matters have been raised in this debate that are worth considering, such as enumeration dates, or the dates on which the electoral quotas are decided.

I have considerable sympathy with the argument of English hon. Members that it is absurd that the quota should have been decided on a date in 1976. What is interesting is that the Scottish quota was on the basis of the 1978 electorate. The Welsh quota was on the basis of the 1981 electorate. It is odd that hon. Members are deciding those matters simultaneously on the basis of dates that are so different as between one part of the United Kingdom and another. This matter must be examined and it is relevant to whether the commission should take account of movements of population. There is a difference of approach between the commissions. In Wales, the commission's approach was not especially important because the enumeration date was 1981.

As I understand paragraph 23 of the report, the English commission felt that it was "neither required nor empowered"—that is the significant word—to take into account later movements of population. In Scotland, the commission's reasons for its allocation of seats to Glasgow were based largely on the movements of population beyond the enumeration date of 1978. It quoted detailed figures of the 1982 population and tried to justify the number of seats on that basis. There are differences of interpretation and matters that require clarification.

In Glasgow, it was argued strongly that it was improper for the boundary commissioners to go beyond 1978 because that happened to suit our circumstances. We also believe that it was, legally, a better argument. As some of the small Scottish constituencies are occasionally quoted, of the 15 largest electorates in Scotland, 12 are held by Labour Members. It is not true to say that movements in population since the previous Boundary Commission report have been especially advantageous to the Labour party in Scotland. The House must speed up inquiries or do something about the enumeration dates for the electoral quotas.

As to procedures, it is unsatisfactory that there is no consultation before the commission produces its provisional proposals. The problem is that the commission does not wish to be subject to any political bias. Local authority boundary commissions normally consult local authorities, which ultimately means the councillors who will be affected by their recommendations. There is no such consultation with the Parliamentary commissions. That is unfortunate because in some cases daft provisional recommendations get published. Sometimes it is a devil of a job at the inquiries to overturn those foolish recommendations. Much time, effort and energy is wasted on recommendations that should never have been made in the first place. We should consider the procedures from that point of view.

A worse factor is the fact that no reasons are given for the provisional recommendations. In the Scottish procedures—I am not sure how far this applies in England—some reasons were given before the start of the inquiry. That is an absurd way to proceed. One receives the provisional recommendations with no reasons and one makes one's representations about them without knowing the basis on which they are drawn. One is working in the dark. Just before one comes to the inquiry the commission gives inadequate information about why it drew up the proposals in the first place. It would be much more satisfactory if the commission published its reasons along with the provisional recommendations. That way, anyone who wished to make representations would at least be able to answer the commission's case instead of making representations in the dark. It is absurd that we are not given rather more adequate reasons than we are given now when the provisional recommendations are published.

The inquiry in Glasgow was satisfactory, and not only for the fact that the assistant commissioner accepted all our representations. It was a model of courtesy and fairness to all, especially to those who, unlike some hon. Members, are not expert at putting their point of view. In view of what has been said by some hon. Members, guidance should be given to assistant commissioners about how to conduct such inquiries, because in some cases fairness and courtesy have not been as evident as they should have been.

The recommendations have caused considerable dissatisfaction in many areas. That is inevitable in such an exercise. However, the moral of the exercise and the general feeling of today's debate is that, whether individually or collectively we are satisfied with the results, we must reconsider the rules either in a Select Committee or in some other way next Session. The Opposition believe that the inadequacies of the rules relate to the dominance of the local authority boundary rule over the equity rule. That dominance should be reversed and must be our major objective. A revision of the rules is long overdue.