Orders of the Day — Gaelic (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 11:43 am on 13 February 1981.

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Photo of Mr Alexander Fletcher Mr Alexander Fletcher , Edinburgh North 11:43, 13 February 1981

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that matter. I understand the point. It would involve a great deal more difficulty for the courts if we were talking not just of the spoken word, but of the use of Gaelic in court proceedings.

The present practice in Scotland is that the language of the courts is English and that interpretation and translation are provided where necessary to enable a witness or party to follow the proceedings. In criminal proceedings interpretation is usually provided at public expense, either directly or through legal aid. That is as it should be. In civil proceedings the costs of such facilities follow the costs of the action.

Clause 3 adopts an entirely new approach. It substitutes for the principle of necessity, at the discretion of the court, choice by the individual party or witnesses, whether or not they can follow the proceedings in English. The clause opens up the possibility that the choice of Gaelic or English, with all the extra expense if Gaelic is chosen, would be made on political or presentational grounds. That cannot be avoided, in view of the Bill's contents. The choice of Gaelic would be made to prove or press a point, not because the party could not follow or take part in proceedings in English

According to the 1971 census, only 242 persons over the age of 10 were returned as speaking Gaelic only. Even though the Registrar General warned that that figure was of doubtful validity, it seems unlikely that there were many more. We are being asked to change the basis of our approach to this important matter for about 250 people out of a population of 5¼ million. That is an extravagant request.

Is the Gaelic activist in East Lothian to be permitted to put the general taxpayer to considerable expense in order to press his point? Apart from the few people who speak Gaelic only, there might be others whose first language is Gaelic and whose English might be good enough to express themselves adequately in daily life, but who might not be able to follow all the details of complicated arguments or legal language or who might not feel able to express themselves adequately in court. I believe, with my hon. Friend the Member for Moray and Nairn (Mr. Pollock), that the courts will always take a generous view of the need for interpretation and translation in such circumstances. However, we should not agree to its being an absolute right, with the added expenditure and delay to proceedings that it would bring if it were used in a vexatious way, as I fear it would be.