Industrial Training

Oral Answers to Questions — Employment – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 22 July 1980.

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Photo of Mr David Knox Mr David Knox , Leek 12:00, 22 July 1980

asked the Secretary of State for Employment whether he has received the review of industrial training arrangements from the Manpower Services Commission.

Photo of Mr James Prior Mr James Prior , Lowestoft

I understand that the Manpower Services Commission has today decided to publish next week the report of the review body on the working of the Employment and Training Act so far as it relates to the arrangements for the promotion of training for employment in industry and commerce.

Photo of Mr David Knox Mr David Knox , Leek

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the standard of industrial training leaves a great deal to be desired? Will he ensure that the proposals in the review are implemented speedily?

Photo of Mr James Prior Mr James Prior , Lowestoft

We need to have consultations on the proposals in the review, which I hope will take place during the summer. I agree with my hon. Friend that training in this country leaves a lot to be desired. This covers young people, the whole apprenticeship system, the retraining of the unemployed and the up-training of people in work. We must ensure that when we get out of this recession we have enough skilled people to enable us to expand.

Photo of Mr Frank Hooley Mr Frank Hooley , Sheffield, Heeley

Is the Secretary of State satisfied that the industrial training boards have the powers and the funds to carry on the training of apprentices made redundant by firms that close during the recession?

Photo of Mr James Prior Mr James Prior , Lowestoft

Three of the main boards—the engineering industry training board, the road transport industry training board and also, I think, the construction industry training board—have ample funds which they can use to continue the training of apprentices whose apprenticeships are interrupted by redundancy. In addition, the Government are increasing the number of apprentices whom they are helping to 25,000 this year. I shall be giving further details in answer to a later question.

Photo of Mr Gordon Wilson Mr Gordon Wilson , Dundee East

Does the Secretary of State realise that unemployment in Scotland is twice that in South-East England, and 50 per cent. above that for the United Kingdom as a whole? While retraining is important—[Interruption.]

Photo of Mr George Thomas Mr George Thomas , Cardiff West

Order. The hon. Gentleman must be allowed to ask his question.

Photo of Mr Gordon Wilson Mr Gordon Wilson , Dundee East

People in Scotland will draw their conclusions from the ill-mannered observations such as those that have just been made by the Labour Party, showing its sensitivity and guilt.—[Interruption.]

Photo of Mr George Thomas Mr George Thomas , Cardiff West

Order. I remind the House that provocative questions help no one. Questions on the issue will be welcomed.

Photo of Mr Gordon Wilson Mr Gordon Wilson , Dundee East

Does the Secretary of State realise that economic solutions are necessary? It is for the Government to come forward with those solutions, including the reflation of the economy of Scotland. Otherwise, the Government and their predecessors will be damned as having no interest in the Scottish people.

Photo of Mr James Prior Mr James Prior , Lowestoft

I recognise the seriousness of the position in Scotland. I recognise too, that we have to put forward economic solutions. That is why it is no good simply pumping more money into the economy to add to the rate of inflation and, two years later, to add to the rate of unemployment. We have been down that course for too long. It simply will not work.

Photo of Alan Haselhurst Alan Haselhurst , Saffron Walden

Will my right hon. Friend initiate early discussions with the TUC and the CBI to improve the flexibility of training arrangements, as that might lead to an extension of the number of places available?

Photo of Mr James Prior Mr James Prior , Lowestoft

The TUC and the CBI are, of course, represented on the Manpower Services Commission. I hope that in the autumn there will be an opportunity for a discussion in NEDC on the whole subject of training. Everyone recognises that it is unsatisfactory at the moment More needs to be done, and money needs to be spent in a more cost-effective way. That is what I am determined to see.

Photo of Mr Harold Walker Mr Harold Walker , Doncaster

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many people will find it difficult to reconcile his professed concern at the Dispatch Box over the level and quality of training with the savage cuts that he has made in the money available for apprentice awards and the savage cuts in the training opportunities programme, which has been cut back from 99,000 in 1978 to 60,000 next year? Is it not the case that these cuts, like those in the job release scheme, in community industry, and in the special temporary employment programme have all contributed significantly to the disastrous unemployment figures?

Photo of Mr James Prior Mr James Prior , Lowestoft

The cuts were in the proposed expenditure of the last Government, which they were never able to implement. They would never have done so. On the question of TOPS, the main cuts have been in clerical and commercial courses. Courses in computer and technical grades have been increased. The right hon. Gentleman has got his figures wrong.